Tomb Kings seem OP?

[Alixsky]

I've just spent the last few days playing through an ork Campaign , admitadley for the first time as orks properly ( I just found it hard to enjoy the playstyle) . so this could all be down to my inexperience/incompatability with playing orks but i Found when i came up against the Tomb Kings by around Turn 140 i was being steam rolled by miniscule tomb king armies. say Setra at level 29 with only 4-5 units was Crushing 17+stacks of medium tier armies i had raiding around the area. As the game has gone on i have found the Tomb kings increasingly harder to deal with. It seems i need to take A stack of Black orks and giants to make a dent in some of their armies and they have been a steady 1st, 2nd place since turn 1 it seems. and once i have dealt with an army because of the "no money" perk ( Just Ridiculous imo) a few turns later 2 more stacks will be ready to go. Are Tomb Kings OP , are orks outdated or just difficult to master? or am i just ♥♥♥♥ ?

[Iriath Zhul]

Are you fighting them manually or autoresolving? Autoresolve is extremely unbalanced in favor of the Tomb Kings; it weighs their trash spearmen about equal with Dwarf Longbeards, for instance.

[Alixsky]

No autoresolving. the odds are astronimically agasint me . I go in manually and I just suffer horrendous cassualties ( even by ork standards) . It just seems to take forever to slog down there units, especially tomb Guard. and the lords just seem impervious to most damage. the orks lack good /any armour piercing ranged but this just doesnt feel right ive played 400+ hours on 1 and 2 and this is the first time i have felt a serious imbalance at work =/ I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced simular occurances.

[Drakenson]

You can use Grimgor to duel any of their constructs to a good effect. Azhag can spam Spirit Leech / Fate of Bjuna. If you confederated Wurzag and Skarsnik, both can handle single entity constructs on their own as well.

TK infantry have characteristically high Melee Defense and Silver Shields, (so about 55% Missile Resistance?). Orc Big 'Uns as a frontline should do the trick, I believe? Obviously supported by Black Orcs, Giants, and Orc Boar Big 'Uns. Try slamming Squig Hoppers and Trolls into the frontline too. DO NOT forget to use WAAAGH! and 'Ere We Go at every moment you get because of that high Melee Defense.

I was about to start a Orc campaign, so these are the units I've thinking about using vs. TK.

[ope84]

Probably you are suffering very high casualties because the enemy tomb king faction has the Tomb Swarm ritual active.

[teptep]

If you just throw units 1 vs 1 you will get a lot of casualities against constructs and tomb guard since they dont stop fighting untill crumbled. Target the leader with a strong lord/hero/snipingspells of your own. Try to bring more than one army and use numbers to your advantage. Rear/flank charge etc to weaken morale especially after killing the lord and TK will crumble fast. Leave their scum regular skeletons last since they dont do much dmg but can take forever to kill. Try different tactics to see which work for you, if I can deal with them with scared or everything Skaven you should be able to aswell with the orcs. Havent played orcs against TK yet but the tools are there. The flying goblin artillery might be usefull against lords the catapult not so much. But the TK usually lacking in artillery(as the AI) so thats a major advantage. Using the right spells at the right time can also make the difference between a pyrhic and decisive victory.

[AVGAMER]

I've found them well balanced, they are a tough fight mid-late game but they should be.

[zefyris]

The tomb guards are made to outlast whatever is thrown at them the way they're facing(high defense, especially with halberds, armoured, slow but benififtting from healing of the lore of nehekara, silver shields...) ; but the real dangers are constructs (and arguably chariots).
Be sure to have plenty of armour piercing against high level TK army, and enough anti large to dispatch construct.
Do not make the mistake of sending your elite troops into the frontline of tombguard directly, as that's exactly what they want you to do. Instead, keep the slow tombguard busy with something else, and once you've dealth with some construct, rear charge the tomb guard (as their MD will be considerably lower) with armour piercing units. Obviously anti infantry+armour piercing works wonder against tomb guard, but once again, better from the rear. See if you can bring something like that like shock cavalry or chariots for rear charging the main line.
Don't bother with missiles if it's not armour piercing.
Artillery can obviously help with that frontline as well, provided it's precise enough.
but regardless, focus the constructs, occupy or avoid the tomb guards. with constructs out of the picture the battle is pretty much won.

Also, for the enemy lord, if you can have fire damage (with a banner or an object) to whoever is taking on them, it helps.

[Anapoda]

Honestly, just git gud.

Nothing much more to add really. If you think Tomb Kings are OP then i invite you to try a game playing as them and you will see by yourself how "OP" they are during the first 50 turns or so.

[Iriath Zhul]

The Tomb Kings, in an individual battle, are basically the best faction in the campaign. This is to make up for the fact that they can't retreat, can't rout, and can't regain lost casualties like the Vampires can. They get one chance to fight you and have to do a good job because they're totally wiped out if they fail.

Try to take out their lords first so they stop with the massive damage spells and the leadership boosts keeping their troops alive to wittle down yours.

Similar to Lizardmen, they *want* to get you in a long melee slog if they can, so you'll need to use heroes, cavalry, armor-piercing missiles, etc., to take apart their good stuff and then mop up the infantry all at once. With lizards, it's the reverse, since the monsters have mediocre leadership and tend to rout long before they die.

[Dbrn]

Hmm, I found them weak, but I generally need to play with them more and learn their strengths, much like I initially found the Skaven. Really had to adjust how I play, probably the same with Kings. Definitely didn't seem like they are OP though.

[Shadow_Actual]

Originally posted by Iriath Zhul:

Similar to Lizardmen, they *want* to get you in a long melee slog if they can, so you'll need to use heroes, cavalry, armor-piercing missiles, etc., to take apart their good stuff and then mop up the infantry all at once. With lizards, it's the reverse, since the monsters have mediocre leadership and tend to rout long before they die.

I'm curious: what would you say is a good way for the Lizardmen to counter the Tomb Kings?

[zefyris]

Originally posted by Shadow_Actual:

Originally posted by Iriath Zhul:

Similar to Lizardmen, they *want* to get you in a long melee slog if they can, so you'll need to use heroes, cavalry, armor-piercing missiles, etc., to take apart their good stuff and then mop up the infantry all at once. With lizards, it's the reverse, since the monsters have mediocre leadership and tend to rout long before they die.

I'm curious: what would you say is a good way for the Lizardmen to counter the Tomb Kings?

They actually have an easy time against tomb king ImO, since saurus can tie up tomb guards easily, and they have very good end game anti large like the carnosaurs. in Campaign they kind of have a simmilar feel as TK in battle, except that since you're controlling them, it should give far better results than the AI will ever get.
Then you focis constructs and rear charge the infantry like I said above with anti infantry monsters liek the stegadons or cold ones, shouldn't especially lose a lot of troops there.

[Notoko]

Tomb Kings are like Vampires, take out their lord and they go bye bye. Remeber no leadership means no staying power on the battlefield.

[Songbird]

Use the pointy stick weapons against them. In case of orks just create an army with a general and 19 orc big uns and roll over their territory.

[Sn3z]

Greenskins need a revamp in their military buildings abit like what they did to vampires. As for countering its tough especially if your playing on a budget, tomb kings army composition are very difficult to deal with if they start getting alot of constructs. I generally push out biguns to the flanks you can experiment with goblins to screen them, boar biguns can help on the extreme flanks with boar chariot(chariots can tie up a unit for your boar to charge then you can move them off), the center for me is always abit of a issue orc boyz with night goblins to screen is still very weak so you need black orcs to replace orc boyz, skipping out on archers seems like a good idea against TK as they have the Ushabti spawn so either split your archers on either flanks or drop them completely and try to get mobile units to force them on the flanks or bolster your center with trolls.