Sallying forth with garrison army is beyond dumb

[Knightlok]

So let me get this straight, my city is under siege and is currently being defended by a Garrison army and a General army. The enemy AI is going to get renforced so I force an attack and sally forth....

So instead of marching out of the city together, like any ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ smart general would do, you're telling me I, ME THE GUY WITH TWO ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ARMIES THERE, have to wait for MY OWN GARRISON ARMY, WHICH IS RIGHT THERE, to come?

"HEY DUDES! LETS DEFEND THE CITY! BUT NOT ALL TOGETHER AT ONCE, NO THAT WOULD BE STUPID! LETS GO OUT ONE ARMY AT A TIME! LETS MAKE IT FAIR FOR THE ENEMY!

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Deci:

And here I thougt you were going to complain about that stupid change when the reinforcement arrives in a single file rather than in a wider formation.


Something that is really bad in the newer small settlement-maps where the depolyment-zone is even closer.

Never see in... wont effect much you move them anyways... stop crying.

[Rusty Harlequin]

I just wish it would allow you to sally out of the city like in Total War Medieval & Rome 2 with your walls behind you giving you covering fire - a bit like it would be great to be able to pin enemies at river bridges/fords :-(

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Rusty Harlequin:

I just wish it would allow you to sally out of the city like in Total War Medieval & Rome 2 with your walls behind you giving you covering fire - a bit like it would be great to be able to pin enemies at river bridges/fords :-(

That would be OP since the cannons reach the full map!!! and they do plenty damage, also baiting the ai in and recking them would be cheese mode.

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by Hurricane:

Originally posted by Deci:

And here I thougt you were going to complain about that stupid change when the reinforcement arrives in a single file rather than in a wider formation.


Something that is really bad in the newer small settlement-maps where the depolyment-zone is even closer.

Never see in... wont effect much you move them anyways... stop crying.

Lol no, I consider it a lost cause anway. But you were very quick on tje defence there, uncanny fast.

Lucky then for you that you havent seen it, i myself have lost battles becsuse my troops couldnt get in position and manouver (and small lizard settlement is the worst offender) because of that

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Deci:

Originally posted by Hurricane:

Never see in... wont effect much you move them anyways... stop crying.

Lol no, I consider it a lost cause anway. But you were very quick on tje defence there, uncanny fast.

Lucky then for you that you havent seen it, i myself have lost battles becsuse my troops couldnt get in position and manouver (and small lizard settlement is the worst offender) because of that

Dude lizards are OP. But yeh ive never seen it, what unit size u play on?

[zefyris]

Errr Why are you complaining that something that makes sense... doesn't make sense?
If you're sallying forth during a siege, you need your troups to go through your gates before they can start deploying outside. If you were to wait too long for everyone to go through before starting the charge, you would definitely get charged by the enemy instead, they wouldn't wait for all your troups to pass through it. So having the second half of your army arriving as reinforcement in that case
makes.
perfect.
sense.

I can understand that it may have costed you a win, but don't complain that it doesn't make sense, since it does far more than what you're wishing for.

[Elitewrecker PT]

The enemy would charge the army standing in front of the gate? You know, in reach of those OP towers?

[zefyris]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

The enemy would charge the army standing in front of the gate? You know, in reach of those OP towers?

That would definitely be a better choice, yes. Having half the defending army stuck outside with impossibility of retreating (as the remainign part of the army is blocking the way) or manoeuvering is the correct way to win that battle.
if you're siegeing a castle, you've brought siege machines too. All those troops stuck in front of the castle , their back against the wall? Yeah, nice position to be in, definitely. Freaking nightmare for any soldier, I can hear al lof them cursing their incompetent general from miles away.
They can't even close the gate because once the soldier in front will start to try retreating, Those behind will try to move back too, leaving the gates open.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Are we talking realistically or with game mechanics here, because you can do that during siege battles, nothing stops you from entering and exiting repeatedly.
In fact, you can argue it's not a bad position at all, you could have archers on the walls firing at the enemy stuck in melee with your other army with not way of reaching the archers.

[zefyris]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

Are we talking realistically or with game mechanics here, because you can do that during siege battles, nothing stops you from entering and exiting repeatedly.
In fact, you can argue it's not a bad position at all, you could have archers on the walls firing at the enemy stuck in melee with your other army with not way of reaching the archers.

We're talking realistically, since that's what the OP complained about. Realistically, the siegeing side got the bigger amount of siege machines, since they are sieging, and the walls won't protect fro marrows the troops blocked against the wall. The only advantage the defender has here is the superior range for archers still inside, but that's completely pointless when all yoru troops are pinned against the wall out of formation, so close of each other that neither sieges machines nor arrow can miss, and cannot manoeuver whereas the opponent can freely charge and disengage.
When you sail forth in a siege, it requier you to bring the fight to the enemy before they can block you at the gates. Waiting in front of the gates that a massive army sails out completely is NOT an option, this is a recipe for disaster. Your cavalry and forward regiments need to create safe space as the reinforcement go through, by threatening to attack the siege machines for example.

[CrOnA]

Originally posted by The God Emperor of Mankind:

So let me get this straight, my city is under siege and is currently being defended by a Garrison army and a General army. The enemy AI is going to get renforced so I force an attack and sally forth....

So instead of marching out of the city together, like any ♥♥♥♥ing smart general would do, you're telling me I, ME THE GUY WITH TWO ♥♥♥♥ING ARMIES THERE, have to wait for MY OWN GARRISON ARMY, WHICH IS RIGHT THERE, to come?

"HEY DUDES! LETS DEFEND THE CITY! BUT NOT ALL TOGETHER AT ONCE, NO THAT WOULD BE STUPID! LETS GO OUT ONE ARMY AT A TIME! LETS MAKE IT FAIR FOR THE ENEMY!

Well it makes sense because a garrisoned army would be in the barracks waiting for the enemy or patrolling and guarding the town where as the general is with his troops waiting to defend

[Chthonic Guardian]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

But if you're the one attacking, the AI isn't going to come after you, so you can take as much time as you want to prepare.

Not really. do you think the sieging general is just going to sit there while you stream 2 armies out your gates, and let you set up how you like?

[Elitewrecker PT]

Fairly sure it will when your sallying forth.

[Jerroser]

The reason why this happens is probably just becasue the game just sees this as a regular battle just outside of the city within range for the garrison to reinforce the attacking army. As for whether or not it makes sense, that actually depends on a lot of factors the game doesn't really bother to consider.

Even if it takes a little while for both armies to go throug the gate(s), they could easily just wait until everyone is out before properly making a move towards the enemy. While the besieging army could decide to attack while they are doing this hoping to isolate part of the defenders forces before they had all left the city. Or they could just as easily decide that it would be unwise to engadge the enemy within such range of their city defences if they are not in a position to deal with them yet.

[Knightlok]

Originally posted by Jerroser:

The reason why this happens is probably just becasue the game just sees this as a regular battle just outside of the city within range for the garrison to reinforce the attacking army. As for whether or not it makes sense, that actually depends on a lot of factors the game doesn't really bother to consider.

Even if it takes a little while for both armies to go throug the gate(s), they could easily just wait until everyone is out before properly making a move towards the enemy. While the besieging army could decide to attack while they are doing this hoping to isolate part of the defenders forces before they had all left the city. Or they could just as easily decide that it would be unwise to engadge the enemy within such range of their city defences if they are not in a position to deal with them yet.

Two valid points, but if we are talking about realism, an enemy army would be move the minute they see the enemy sally forth, not wait for half to go out and THEN charge (if they are fully combat ready, in formation and ready to go on a minute's notice). Hell, lets say they set up camp around the city and build siege weapons, even if the forward scout sees the enemy deploying from the city, the enemy army would be unprepaired and take time to set up formations (to be honest, one of the main benefits of sally'ing forth is catching your enemy off guard as they would not expect it OR to regroup with a flanking force). And towards your second point, make it an option, to sally forth with either the Garrison or general army, use one to weaken the attacking force and another to defend. Sure, maybe the army that leaves the city might get crushed but a tired offensive would surely dwindle against a ready defending army. And that is if the general is crazy enough to sacrifice half his defending army to do so.

All I am saying is why the ♥♥♥♥ did the developers decide to remove something that was incorporated in so many of their previous games, made sense and was actually GOOD? They remove a lot of negative ♥♥♥♥ but sometimes it baffles me that they also remove small details like this that make the game significantlly more furstrating.