Skaven underempire - not under dwarf cities I hope!

[J. P. Armistead]

Please... please tell me that Skaven can't build under a dwarf city! That would break the game for me. Surely they could never get away with it. Dwarves dig deep, very deep , with their deepshaft mines. They live underground for heavens sake! They would detect such activity under them in an instant. Please DEVS if Skaven can do this please consider removing it in the next patch!

[Skrain]

Skaven in canon lore have underempires beneath Dwarven cities.

[Pzyclopz]

There are buildings to counter the under-empire mechanic. Modders might make something that gives Dwarves a bonus against that, and it is possible for Dwarves to miss some pockets of the Rat Resistance.

[RCMidas]

That's the whole problem with Karak Eight Peaks for one thing. Skarsnik has control of some of the more heavily fortified segments, Belegar is fighting just to maintain any position he has, and Queek is sending up whatever he can from below.

[zefyris]

Originally posted by Skrain:

Skaven in canon lore have underempires beneath Dwarven cities.

this. Skaven under karaks is lore friendly. Where do you think that Ikit built his two doomspheres in the lore?

[Ambushbob]

the only place the skaven couldnt get under was the wood elves

[RCMidas]

Originally posted by Ambushbob:

the only place the skaven couldnt get under was the wood elves

Athel Loren and Ulthuan, correct. You can actually expand the Underempire there for the first time in game, so that's a plus. Still can't use the Underway stance on Ulthuan though.

[J. P. Armistead]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

That's the whole problem with Karak Eight Peaks for one thing. Skarsnik has control of some of the more heavily fortified segments, Belegar is fighting just to maintain any position he has, and Queek is sending up whatever he can from below.

Yes but this was not the underempire mechanic. If Skaven siege and capture a dwarf city then they can do what they will with it. I maintain that Skaven shouldn't be able to undermine an occupied dwarf hold.

[J. P. Armistead]

Originally posted by Ambushbob:

the only place the skaven couldnt get under was the wood elves

But why. The Elves live in the trees, making so easy to undermine them.

[zefyris]

Originally posted by J. P. Armistead:

Originally posted by RCMidas:

That's the whole problem with Karak Eight Peaks for one thing. Skarsnik has control of some of the more heavily fortified segments, Belegar is fighting just to maintain any position he has, and Queek is sending up whatever he can from below.

Yes but this was not the underempire mechanic. If Skaven siege and capture a dwarf city then they can do what they will with it. I maintain that Skaven shouldn't be able to undermine an occupied dwarf hold.

Maybe you didn't get it the first time. Skavens in karak eight peaks, came from below. Just like they came from below in many other karak that fell to them.

BTW since this patch, in ME Queek now starts directly with an under city under karak eight peaks, as it should be .

[Red Dragon]

iirc there's even an under-empire-city beneath Karaz-a-karak in the lore ... so that should state pretty clearly that dwarves either don't notice everything happening below them, or just can't get effectively rid of it

[Voxrox]

Sorry - but Skaven cities under/besides/over Dwarf cities at least can be somehow justified still..

Skaven cities under Ulthuan however...sorry. Even if THAT nonsense got (as CA claims) GW's blessing, it is still friggin bloody nonsensically stupid bullsh...

[zefyris]

Originally posted by Voxrox:

Sorry - but Skaven cities under/besides/over Dwarf cities at least can be somehow justified still..

Skaven cities under Ulthuan however...sorry. Even if THAT nonsense got (as CA claims) GW's blessing, it is still friggin bloody nonsensically stupid bullsh...

Except that you're the one not making sense. In the lore, it's impossible to link the under empire from the rest of the world to ulthuan since it's not linked below (as it's floating), but there's no problem with digging tunnels in Ulthuan if you're starting from above it.
In TW, Ulthuan's protection against ships landing on their shore is deactivated due to the vortex being unstable. Meaning, skavens can reach it by ships. and start exploiting sewers and the like in the cities over there. It's actually a fairly easy job to remain unnoticed, since elven cities are far too big for their current populations.


The only place in tw that does not make sense is under Athel Loren. that shouldn't be allowed, but hey, it's just 5 settlements, so whatever.

[RenegadeKnight]

Originally posted by Voxrox:

Sorry - but Skaven cities under/besides/over Dwarf cities at least can be somehow justified still..

Skaven cities under Ulthuan however...sorry. Even if THAT nonsense got (as CA claims) GW's blessing, it is still friggin bloody nonsensically stupid bullsh...

The only reason there aren't under cities in Ulthuan is the elves being thorough.Take note btw that you still need to get to Ulthuan over the sea, so the no tunnels thing doesn't really apply. So in a sandbox game it makes sense to allow you to expand there if the ai isn't actively preventing it like the elfs in lore would. If anything Ulthuan cities should get unique versions of the skaven detection building with stronger detection. The only thing that you shouldn't be able to do is expanding automatically from southlands/ naggarond/ lustria into ulthuan, which I don't think is possible as is.

[RenegadeKnight]

Originally posted by zefyris:

Originally posted by Voxrox:

Sorry - but Skaven cities under/besides/over Dwarf cities at least can be somehow justified still..

Skaven cities under Ulthuan however...sorry. Even if THAT nonsense got (as CA claims) GW's blessing, it is still friggin bloody nonsensically stupid bullsh...

Except that you're the one not making sense. In the lore, it's impossible to link the under empire from the rest of the world to ulthuan since it's not linked below (as it's floating), but there's no problem with digging tunnels in Ulthuan if you're starting from above it.
In TW, Ulthuan's protection against ships landing on their shore is deactivated due to the vortex being unstable. Meaning, skavens can reach it by ships. and start exploiting sewers and the like in the cities over there. It's actually a fairly easy job to remain unnoticed, since elven cities are far too big for their current populations.


The only place in tw that does not make sense is under Athel Loren. that shouldn't be allowed, but hey, it's just 5 settlements, so whatever.

They have landed on the island before as well, it's just the elfs killed them all before they could go hiding anywhere.

[Voxrox]

Originally posted by zefyris:

Originally posted by Voxrox:

Sorry - but Skaven cities under/besides/over Dwarf cities at least can be somehow justified still..

Skaven cities under Ulthuan however...sorry. Even if THAT nonsense got (as CA claims) GW's blessing, it is still friggin bloody nonsensically stupid bullsh...

Except that you're the one not making sense. In the lore, it's impossible to link the under empire from the rest of the world to ulthuan since it's not linked below (as it's floating), but there's no problem with digging tunnels in Ulthuan if you're starting from above it.
In TW, Ulthuan's protection against ships landing on their shore is deactivated due to the vortex being unstable. Meaning, skavens can reach it by ships. and start exploiting sewers and the like in the cities over there. It's actually a fairly easy job to remain unnoticed, since elven cities are far too big for their current populations.


The only place in tw that does not make sense is under Athel Loren. that shouldn't be allowed, but hey, it's just 5 settlements, so whatever.

Sorry, it is BS. I mean, yes, if somebody invades Ulthuan, sure. Then things are already effed up, though it is funny to imagine giant Skaven hordes ... coming to ulthuan...and building tunnels into the island ...

But if the under city gets placed by an engineer with Ulthuan under control of Elves, I wanna see how he does that wihout access to the tunnel system. Does he get his stuff by boat, constantly? Or has he a bag of holding with all the materials needed to dig the holes and build the stuff he need down there...

No to mention that Ulthuan, instable Vortex or not, is chock full of mages of all sorts

It is nonsense, made for game-play reasons.Same with Athel Loren. No way it could also happen there, same with Ulthuan. At least they didn't make any exceptions anywhere, so I jsut live with this stupidity...just like Skaven neveer seem to explode from their own devices...which also would be more appropiate to them...