which units to avoid as dark elves ?

[Paulogbfs]

Hi there, i wanna know your tips. Im on early game and so far spamming darkshards and spear infantry as Malekith is working so far, his sword spell is OP.
As the game progresses andm y economy improves, which units should i stay away from?

[Ashley]

I avoid their Calvary and harpies mostly. Their Calvary isn't fantastic better then nothing tho. And the cold ones have rampage so if you get damaged on a charge that can mess them up. Harpies are kinda meh. Anything else is fine in my opinion. Maybe a pass on witch elves and sisters. Or at least not too heavy on those.

[Darth Wadewilson]

Originally posted by Gork and Mork:

I avoid their Calvary and harpies mostly. Their Calvary isn't fantastic better then nothing tho. And the cold ones have rampage so if you get damaged on a charge that can mess them up. Harpies are kinda meh. Anything else is fine in my opinion. Maybe a pass on witch elves and sisters. Or at least not too heavy on those.

I would add manticores to the above list.

Don't agree on witch elves and sisters though. They are pretty good at what they do. Especially with the right lord/LL.

Also this is more of a playstyle choice than anything else. I find DE artillery pretty dull. Shades and darkshards are so much fun to play with that I rarely use artillery

[AVGAMER]

Cold one knights well supported are great monster hunters. I've always found ferel manticors really bad for all but kamikaze artillery removers.

Dark riders with shields arnt genrally worth bothering either

[Ashley]

Originally posted by Darth Reyns:

Originally posted by Gork and Mork:

I avoid their Calvary and harpies mostly. Their Calvary isn't fantastic better then nothing tho. And the cold ones have rampage so if you get damaged on a charge that can mess them up. Harpies are kinda meh. Anything else is fine in my opinion. Maybe a pass on witch elves and sisters. Or at least not too heavy on those.

I would add manticores to the above list.

Don't agree on witch elves and sisters though. They are pretty good at what they do. Especially with the right lord/LL.

Also this is more of a playstyle choice than anything else. I find DE artillery pretty dull. Shades and darkshards are so much fun to play with that I rarely use artillery

I actually completely forget about manticores exist. So I agree with that. Artillery I also agree with but I actually had a close battle where if I didn't have the artillery i would have lost. (I hid in the trees and the AI for some reason derped out and only moved forward every artillery shot)

About witch elves that's why I said not to go to heavy on them. Maybe with hellebron I would bring more. But past maybe 1-2 I wouldn't bring them since melee aren't something to be depended on heavily. An extra unit to hold the line or another spot for shades. I kinda would rather have either of those. Or replace them with executioners.

I used to pass on black ark corsairs but i've been using them more lately and they're better then they look.

A few dreadspears, black guard, executioners, a hydra and dragon and greatsword shades perform well for me. Especially Shades with all their buffs and the commander buff. Sure I feel high elves start with better range vs dark elves but shades with their max buffs are nasty once you get it all going. Might be better in campaign since ai high elves armies don't often take advantage of sisters.

[Storm Runner]

dark riders arnt worth it execpt for the X-bow avoid bleakswords dreadspears are better bc more defence and the de dont lack killing power harpys are only good vs skrm cav manticors are better as a sommon than a slot which have a role in rampageing a lord or big monster best results when stacked with black garud

[AVGAMER]

Harpies are good for distracting seaguard as they arnt large

[Voxrox]

I would say ... Cold One Riders. The problem is despite their awesome look, and being monsters with deadly elves riding on top, in heavy armour ... they feel so friggin squishy.

Mostly the time I check back on them - even if only briefly - they already lost so much health they are close to rampage - and when that happens, and you lost control, they are basically dead

So I mostly rely on Warlocks for some cav protection on my flanks...and rather bring a dragon than Cold Ones...

A pity, really ... as I said, they really look awesome

[AVGAMER]

They do need a hp buff

[James Howlette]

Harpies 100%. They are absolute garbage.

I've seen them somehow lose melee battles to undefended artillery crew on several occasions.

[Oblivious]

It really depends on who you're fighting and what you want the army to do.. I basically never used harpies for my Malekith campaign when i was fighting High Elves, but new campaign i'm in the Old World vs the Empire harpies are extremely useful to take down their artillery crews.

• Manticores are decent for hunting heroes/monsters
  
• Dreadspears/Bleakswords are extremely weak past the very early game, i recommend spamming darkshards over these.
  
• Dark riders are trash vs High Elves, specially vs sea guards, but they have their uses vs artillery crews, also good for chasing retreating troops (more slaves)
  
• Dark rider crossbows - this is probably the one i've used least. You have so many other better missile options, and these guys don't even fire whilst moving or behind them

[Ewalden]

I like using their Cold Ones, if only having a pair of them to smash into flanks or ride down artillery or missile regiments.

As for Manticores, while obsolete when you get to recruit Dragons, aren't entirely useless. I sometimes take a pair of them. Two Manticores working in tandem can help collapse a flank or destroy the enemy's rear line, just keep them in reserve for a few seconds, until the main battle has been joined. They share the same bad reputation as Great Eagles does for the High Elves, but honestly, in campaign a pair of either is useful, at least until you get Dragons.
- Later in the game, sure, then you may chose to avoid Manticores.

The question was what to avoid though? We are speaking campaign here?

I would avoid Harpies, as other's have mentioned them, I'll be nice and call them near useless. I have included them in my armies a couple of times, just for kicks and giggles, but they do pretty much nothing except attract missile fire and die in melee.

I similarly avoid dual-wielding Shades. Don't get me wrong, Shades are great, but regular Shades have pretty much the same capability as the dual-wielding ones. Great Weapon Shades are awesome! Dual-wielding shades? They cost more than the regular ones and the difference is miniscule. I guess one could take them for diversity's sake, but its more or less volunteering to pay extra upkeep when regular shades will do and great weapon shades are better.

I would also like to mention Dark Riders. They seem like a slightly weaker version of the Ellyrion Reavers, the light cavalry of the High Elves. Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows are nice enough, but the spear armed Dark Riders are frail and have a disappointing charge. On their own they will not accomplish much, and even as flankers they are lacking. If you truly feel the need to take them, I'd take the ones with shields, just for that slightly better missile resistance.

Perhaps a dishonourable mention goes to Bleakswords. Not that they are that bad for a low tier unit, they can fight one on one with basic marauders and Bretonnian men at arms, but you do expect more of Dark Elves to be honest. When there are so many better melee units in the roster, from Corsairs to Executioners to Black Guards, depending, and that basic Dreadspears seem to do equally good or better in most situations anyway.. One can wonder what is the point of Bleakswords.

Ultimately though, I would say one shouldn't avoid using a unit at all, simply because you think it is bad. Occasionally it will surprise you. Just don't use them in the main army, you know, Malekith's for example, or Morathi's.
- But an out of the way army that just helps protect a part of your realm, your empire`? Why not? After all, it is also about having a bit of fun, and if you are like me and get tired of using all the same units over and over, instead of only taking 5 or 8 or 10 of the best units, taking 2-3 of the various good units and 1-2 of the bad ones, just for fun..

Especially if you are having fun on Hard or Normal campaign. Sometimes just having a romp and getting to diversify your campaigns a bit with the entire roster.

But anyways; yeah, to sum it up:
- Harpies; they are useless
- Dual-wielding Shades; costs more than normal ones - with near no difference
- Dark Riders with Spears; they are hardly worth it
- Bleakswords; because they are the worst in their intended role- to fight infantry

[Sn3z]

Originally posted by Ewalden:

- Dual-wielding Shades; costs more than normal ones - with near no difference

When you have variants of a unit, that usually is implying that they could be useful in certain match-ups, the dual-wielding actually performs nearly x3 as good as a normal shade versus a T3 saurus with shield, in a melee fight(that is a big deal). On campaign though you don't really have time to think about this stuff, if you have 4 normal shades say, its prudent to swap two for dual these could be thrown in if your line is struggling, later the other normal shades could be swapped for great weapons.

[Uugly]

The Dark Elves cavalry are some of the worst units. The best units have rampage. Lethal just like Lizard blessing Dino but their rampage will end up killing them. So if you planning on using them far from your territory then they are a very bad units.

Their best is their melee and lethal missile units. Especially the missile. Try to siege rush them and your army will melt fast.

[zefyris]

In campaign for DE, I don,'t think there is a unit to especially avoid tbh. Some you definitely don't want to put too many in an army, but that's obvious cases like balistas and the like, but otherwise, all of them are pretty powerful for their tiers, especially considering that regular lords can have words of power buffing a type even more; when combined to technology buff + red line buff, this makes most unit buffed that way absolute monsters, so well.

Harpies are quite strong. They're really an underrated unit in the community. Just don't send them against a rain of arrows and bullet, they're not going to make it, they have no missile resist at all.
They have very high melee defense for that type of unit (38 without any buff), allowing them to not lose that many models when engaged in combat. They're also the only unit in the DE roster that has access to an early +MA in the technology tree. They're a cheap (they cost as much as a darshard without shield) vanguard & very fast unit that will not die easily in melee if you forget them for a while.
You're not supposed to mass that obviously, but having one or two in your armies can really go a long way as they can be very useful compared to their low cost (there is only like 4 units in the DE roster that cost less than them).
The best part is, they will get naturally buffed without focusing on them as soon as you go for buffing monsters in your red line, and same goes for their building, they will be available immediately as you go for monsters.

BTW, early on one unit of Harpies can easily single out and murder enemy caster lords without losing that much models, and they also easily wins with barely a scratch against flying large with only a few models like carrions and the like.

The manticore would probably be the weakest in the roster but even it as its use as long as you limit yourself to one per army at most.

[Mythrayn]

Harpies fill the same niche as fell bats - they're amazing for stopping cavalry charges and harassing back lines. Not useless at all.