Just watched a LegendOfTotalWar video start to finish...

[funkmonster7]

... and his strategy revolved around derping the AI to a complete standstill.

I watched snippets of his playing and thought he sucked, but this ... what the actual ****.

I'm all in for CA to improve the AI just to trash this goon of a player's 'strategy', if you can even call it that.

This guy sent Empire Knights to Ikit Claw, stuck the shock cavs in there so of course they got routed. Then he sent Wulfhart over to let loose a fireball which misses and hits his own routing units. And he calls Empire Knights a crap unit. I pretty much muted the audio from there on and just watched the next 10 mins on how he manages to rout the entire Skaven army.

Which was actually just firing what little ammunition he has in his army at the AI that are exploited into being absolute fodder with no real purpose.

[Cacomistle]

I think there's a wider point to be made about how "good" he is. And that's that his skill in multiplayer doesn't matter. He plays campaign. And he is very good at campaign.

Yes, the strategies he does are "cheese". But the thing is, if you limit your strategies to things your opponent knows how to handle, you're crippling yourself. So calling it "cheese" is pretty useless. Doing a strategy that doesn't abuse a weakness of the ai is almost impossible. Not because you'll lose if you do or anything dumb like that, but because almost every strategy the player can possibly do abuses some weakness that the ai has.

Like he might do obvious cheese tactics like I saw him build 19 rock throwers, use all their ammo in a siege battle, then let it draw and start the battle again. But we as players do a lot of less obvious cheese tactics. Like I'll throw a dwarf engineer in my dwarf armies. You might be thinking "how is that a cheese tactic", but I'm not sure what else to call 100+ damage thunderers when they're meant to do like 21 base.

So if I want to avoid cheese, I have to just off the top of my head:

Not get lightning strike.
Not use ambush stance.
Not get any significant amount of red skills or tech bonuses.
Not use ranged spam armies.
Not flank with my cav, the ai won't protect its ranged at all.
Not use artillery in siege battles, ai will never push out to fight them.
Never fight a defensive siege battle.
Never fight an offensive siege battle (I've won vs armies stronger than mine by literally clicking on the walls and going afk, that's how bad the ai is).
Maybe just never fight out a battle actually
Don't spam monsters
Don't spam high tier units, ai won't build stacks strong enough to beat them if you just bring them together
Don't use vortex spells, its too easy to get the ai to clump on them.
Don't abuse ward save items on heros/lords
Don't build walls, ai won't just attack even with vastly superior armies until they've sieged for like 4 turns

I'm not running out of ideas, so I'm gonna stop there because I don't want to spend the next 10 minutes coming up with more. Maybe some people disagree with some of those, but the point almost everything I put there (or at least combinations of 2 of them) can be abused to beat an ai army in a situation where you'd never stand a chance vs a human.

The difference is just a lot of those feel like normal play. Like why wouldn't you throw an engineer in your armies? Its part of the game. Whereas using 19 artillery pieces in a siege battle doesn't feel like normal play. LegendOfTotalWar has played enough total war he probably doesn't care about "normal play" anymore.

[Gentlest Giant]

Yeah, literally -ANYTHING- can be considered cheese, exploit or whatever have you. The meaning is purely created by the arbitrary whims of whoever utters it.
Which should make anyone realize how useless the word is.

[NITRO]

Cacomistle の投稿を引用：

I think there's a wider point to be made about how "good" he is. And that's that his skill in multiplayer doesn't matter. He plays campaign. And he is very good at campaign.

Yes, the strategies he does are "cheese". But the thing is, if you limit your strategies to things your opponent knows how to handle, you're crippling yourself. So calling it "cheese" is pretty useless. Doing a strategy that doesn't abuse a weakness of the ai is almost impossible. Not because you'll lose if you do or anything dumb like that, but because almost every strategy the player can possibly do abuses some weakness that the ai has.

Like he might do obvious cheese tactics like I saw him build 19 rock throwers, use all their ammo in a siege battle, then let it draw and start the battle again. But we as players do a lot of less obvious cheese tactics. Like I'll throw a dwarf engineer in my dwarf armies. You might be thinking "how is that a cheese tactic", but I'm not sure what else to call 100+ damage thunderers when they're meant to do like 21 base.

So if I want to avoid cheese, I have to just off the top of my head:

Not get lightning strike.
Not use ambush stance.
Not get any significant amount of red skills or tech bonuses.
Not use ranged spam armies.
Not flank with my cav, the ai won't protect its ranged at all.
Not use artillery in siege battles, ai will never push out to fight them.
Never fight a defensive siege battle.
Never fight an offensive siege battle (I've won vs armies stronger than mine by literally clicking on the walls and going afk, that's how bad the ai is).
Maybe just never fight out a battle actually
Don't spam monsters
Don't spam high tier units, ai won't build stacks strong enough to beat them if you just bring them together
Don't use vortex spells, its too easy to get the ai to clump on them.
Don't abuse ward save items on heros/lords
Don't build walls, ai won't just attack even with vastly superior armies until they've sieged for like 4 turns

I'm not running out of ideas, so I'm gonna stop there because I don't want to spend the next 10 minutes coming up with more. Maybe some people disagree with some of those, but the point almost everything I put there (or at least combinations of 2 of them) can be abused to beat an ai army in a situation where you'd never stand a chance vs a human.

In the end any strategy that isn't just attacking head on like a complete idiot is "cheesing". Even knowing how your enemy (the AI) will behave and act against that is considered cheese for these dudes

[THE LARGEST]

This post is clapped honestly

[NITRO]

Romans cheesed history with battle formations, so cheesy XC

[Dreamking]

Are people seriously complaining how someone plays a single player game? Last I checked when you buy a game you can play how you like. If you dislike it don't watch?

[I am Karl Franz]

bruh

[Klongu Da Zuzu]

This is so cringe lmao, imagine being so sad you make this lmao

[ICrazySkills]

Never played a legendary campaign but I agree withe everything the OG posted

[NeppyNine]

Empire Knights are a crap unit unless you are playing multiplayer or play on lower difficulty.

[WaRz]

lol cry baby

[NITRO]

ICrazySkills の投稿を引用：

Never played a legendary campaign but I agree withe everything the OG posted

I never played this game and I agree with everything

[RED /(Weber)\]

NITRO の投稿を引用：

RED Floyd /(Weber)\ の投稿を引用：

Its the CoD "camping isnt legit" stuff all over again. As if there was enough of a reason not to play MP.

Next we'll read someone typing that using magic in TWW2 against an AI blob is "cheese"

Don't jinx me on this one.

[Kriss]

I didn't know an freacking game AI needed whiteknighting...
It's a strong independent AI which doesn't need no natural intelligence, you know, you AI-phobe...

[LegendofTotalWar]

Yeah that dude cheeses the game so much. What a looser. Cheese for the Cheese God