Total War: WARHAMMER II

Total War: WARHAMMER II

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isaif_at Sep 24, 2019 @ 1:30am
did the warhammer universe ever end? ''lore question''
so i keep hearing them saying ''the end times'' did the warhammer universe ever end? were all humans ever went extinct and if so by who? chaos? and how? would like to know please

i like to imagine that this ones skyrim looking universe turned into dark souls did that ever happen in the lore?
Last edited by isaif_at; Sep 24, 2019 @ 1:31am
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Officially it ended.
Google Age of Sigmar beginning lore. That'll give you the run down to the end of Fantasy and the start of The Age of Sigmar.
Hannibal Barca Sep 24, 2019 @ 1:33am 
horned rat won
Decomposed Sep 24, 2019 @ 1:37am 
The world was consumed by the chaos forces and utterly vanished.
isaif_at Sep 24, 2019 @ 1:44am 
Originally posted by The Mighty Mulletman:
Officially it ended.
Google Age of Sigmar beginning lore. That'll give you the run down to the end of Fantasy and the start of The Age of Sigmar.

it really ended? i thought warhammer 40k was like the future, thats sad..
Wh♂♂par Sep 24, 2019 @ 1:48am 
Age of Sigmar is the "continuation". But it's also only the "continuation", so they can re-use characters and could keep fans "familiar". Warhammer Fantasy is dead, Age of Sigmar is a completely different story, with different factions, different armies, different world, and so on. Only a few legendary characters from Warhammer Fantasy made it through.
Last edited by Wh♂♂par; Sep 24, 2019 @ 1:49am
Ysthrall Sep 24, 2019 @ 1:49am 
Nope. Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy were always seperate universes, joined only by the same set of Chaos Gods.

And a few years back, Games Workshop started a series of storyline events called the End Times, which finished with the whole world being over-run, trashed, ripped into little pieces, set on fire, thrown in the bin, and then a few fragments being incorporated into their new setting, "Age of Sigmar."

...and we will say nothing more on that here...

This (trilogy) is likely the last game set in the Warhammer Fantasy world.
Garatgh Deloi Sep 24, 2019 @ 3:00am 
Originally posted by Ysthrall:
Nope. Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy were always seperate universes, joined only by the same set of Chaos Gods.

As far as i know that is not completely true.

Warhammer 40k was originally made as a parody of Warhammer fantasy (This was before 40k was anywhere near a finished state). Very early versions of both universes had a lot of hints that they were in the same universe as well.

Once they realized that people liked 40k and they could earn money on it they quickly scrapped that idea and made them two separate universes (All through 40k still kept its heavy warhammer fantasy inspiration).

Off course all of this info is second hand, so it might be wrong. But i have heard it more then once from different old generation warhammer fans.
Last edited by Garatgh Deloi; Sep 24, 2019 @ 3:01am
Maximus Sep 24, 2019 @ 3:18am 
As far as I'm aware the warhammer timeline we're made to know of is the only timeline that failed in defeating chaos. Apparently the whole cycle repeated itself several times but the forces of good always prevailed. Not this time tho.

By the endtimes most races were still distrustful with each other and so they had to face chaos invasions with little to no help from outside sources, which ultimately lead them to fall one by one.

Or at least that's what I've read from some sources on the interwebz.

Sad and depressing ending indeed... perfectly in line with the general tone of the setting tho.
Overread Sep 24, 2019 @ 3:24am 
The games have evolved over time (at least 30+years) and the company also grew from a small few people into the giant that it is today. Through that time the lore has evolved. Early lore indeed was much more casual and also had it that fantasy eventually evolved into 40K; however that was steadily dropped and the worlds are now linked only by teh fact that chaos is present in both and the models for them are shared between the two games. Otherwise they are totally separate but still share many of the same species designs (Eldar are elves - Orks are orks etc..).


Basically Fantasy was on the down, the Old World game wasn't selling very well at all. A combination of GW ignoring it, but also the fact that at that time GW wasn't as marketing savey as they now and most places that still played the Old World game were mostly at around the 2K army size. There were methods for playing smaller games, but they weren't really marketed and they didn't work the best either. So there was a big financial and time commitment to getting into Old World at the time. This didn't help the dwindling fanbase.

Then GW made a big End Times campaign and sparked off loads of interest in the game coupled ot marketing and some fantastic new models. Now its important to note that big Chaos invasions had happened before in the lore so most assumed it would be a big scary event - lots of things would die and it would then be a reborn world. Instead GW destroyed it utterly.

At the same time they launched Age of Sigmar which is a game set in the 3rd Age of a new Mortal Realm setting which has multiple planes of existance built rather like Diskworlds out of er well Diskworld by Terry Pratchett. As part of that change some of the characters from the Old World managed to survive, others died off, some became gods, some demigods. By setting it in the 3rd age the AoS game world is already thousands of years and many generations old so most races, whilst sharing the same visual designs, are far removed from the past.

GW also took that moment to shatter many armies into lots of tiny subfactions; people who began the day with a whole army ended it with 5 or more little armies, some of these subfactions had only one model in them. In addition they removed two whole armies (Bretonnia and Tombkings); they also then removed ALL the games points and rules and replaced them with a jovial set of rules (if you're playing dwarves and have a beard you get +1 attack kind of things).


So after hyping up the Old World they removed the lore, the game, the points, several armies fully and multiple armies got shattered into bits. Basically it was a marketing disaster of a huge magnitude at launch and it generated a LOT of hate against it from fans of the original game. some of which finding their thousands of £ worth of army and many hours of building and painting were not worthless in the new game that wasn't even a game.




AoS has changed a LOT since then as GW went through a CEO change and a massive marketing waking up. It's now got proper rules, its had many of the fragmented armies pulled back together and just this weekend announced one of the last big Battletomes that is rebuilding a new faction out of the shattered remains of Dwarves, Elves and Humans - a united front in these dark times of war (Cities of Sigmar).
There's still a lingering hate of it in some quarters, but by and large its doing really well now. The lore has also improved a lot and things like GWs Novella series are really showing up the little people not just the godlike warriors and golds in the setting (stories like Warqueen are well worth checking out).
Heck you can't have failed to notice that Gotrek got some big marketing this month and he's also survived into the Mortal Realms (as grumpy as ever) and is even getting audio stories voiced by Bryan Blessed.
kekkuli Sep 24, 2019 @ 3:25am 
The world pretty much blows apart in the end when archaon and sigmar fall into a chaos gate.
isaif_at Sep 24, 2019 @ 3:41am 
Originally posted by Maximus:
As far as I'm aware the warhammer timeline we're made to know of is the only timeline that failed in defeating chaos. Apparently the whole cycle repeated itself several times but the forces of good always prevailed. Not this time tho.

By the endtimes most races were still distrustful with each other and so they had to face chaos invasions with little to no help from outside sources, which ultimately lead them to fall one by one.

Or at least that's what I've read from some sources on the interwebz.

Sad and depressing ending indeed... perfectly in line with the general tone of the setting tho.

why would they do this though what did chaos achieve by destroying everything what happened to them after they ruined everything?
Wh♂♂par Sep 24, 2019 @ 3:44am 
Nothing and everything. It's Chaos. They don't care.
kekkuli Sep 24, 2019 @ 3:47am 
Originally posted by isaif_at:
Originally posted by Maximus:
As far as I'm aware the warhammer timeline we're made to know of is the only timeline that failed in defeating chaos. Apparently the whole cycle repeated itself several times but the forces of good always prevailed. Not this time tho.

By the endtimes most races were still distrustful with each other and so they had to face chaos invasions with little to no help from outside sources, which ultimately lead them to fall one by one.

Or at least that's what I've read from some sources on the interwebz.

Sad and depressing ending indeed... perfectly in line with the general tone of the setting tho.

why would they do this though what did chaos achieve by destroying everything what happened to them after they ruined everything?

"Already tired of their victory, they turned away from the ruin they have wrought and began the Great Game anew in other worlds and other creations. In doing so, they paid no heed to the tiny speck of light tumbling in the infinite darkness -- the glowing essence of what had once been a man. Through the storm of nothingness he fell, adrift for aeons upon unseed tides. Then came a glimmering orb, a fiery world-heart grown cold as the abyss. Desperate, the figure seized upon the sphere with a grip that could shatter mountains. He stared into the void, and from the darkness, the void stared back. The figure clung tight, marshalling his faded strength. He reached forth his hand, and a miracle took shape..."
Maximus Sep 24, 2019 @ 3:57am 
Originally posted by isaif_at:
why would they do this though what did chaos achieve by destroying everything what happened to them after they ruined everything?

both Whoopar's and Kekkuli's answer are as equally comprehensive on that regard.

Chaos does what chaos does. In 40k it's theorized by a bad guy (magnus perhaps?) that the only way to defeat chaos is to let it win, cause it would self-destruct itself by infightings when no other enemy would be available.

That's why I don't like chaos much, evil can be charming if it has some greater purpose but this... this is as dull as it gets. Destroying for the sake of destroying, that is.
Jack Deth Sep 24, 2019 @ 4:04am 
Originally posted by isaif_at:
so i keep hearing them saying ''the end times'' did the warhammer universe ever end? were all humans ever went extinct and if so by who? chaos? and how? would like to know please

i like to imagine that this ones skyrim looking universe turned into dark souls did that ever happen in the lore?

So...most here are slightly wrong.

Age of Sigmar is without any doubt, 100% a continuation of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

Nagash is the same Nagash as he was (and distinctly remembers the "World that Was" as WFB is referenced as), Neferata, Mannfred, Arkhan in fact quite a few of the undead. Sigmar is pretty much the same Sigmar, Malekith is the same...mostly. Morathi, Teclis, Gotrek, Tyrion. Archaon.

Hilariously enough, Age of Sigmar is what some people think/thought Warhammer 40K was to Warhammer Fantasy. It's Warhammer Fantasy extremely far in the future.

Now where these people who are wrong are slightly right is that Age of Sigmar abandoned the WFB aesthetic (AoS isn't dark/gritty/goofy like WFB is/was) completely and also completely changed the TT gameplay (why I don't play the game personally).

WFB ended...because it was selling poorly and it had stagnated lorewise. Blocked infantry TT games were less interesting (at the time) than more Warmahordes skirmish style. The lore was so inflexible they couldn't really advance it without killing off or drastically changing factions (you see how packed the ME map is?). Also...Chapterhouse happened.

Originally posted by isaif_at:
why would they do this though what did chaos achieve by destroying everything what happened to them after they ruined everything?

Chaos...is selfish. Chaos exists solely to exist and to exist means one needs to be acknowledged or recognized by some other outside force whether directly, or indirectly. Chaos does this by essentially playing with realities and their denizens.

Also, we're all little mini Chaos gods when we play Total War: Warhammer...we play for fun. They play for fun.

As for what happened to them, well they are still the same Chaos gods found not only in Age of Sigmar but also in Warhammer 40K. They are one of a few in the setting that can transcend multiple realities/existences (proven via the Liber Chaotica and multiple stories by BL authors). They continue on doing the chaos thing but now in Age of Sigmar rather than the Old World.



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Date Posted: Sep 24, 2019 @ 1:30am
Posts: 23