Most lore breaking unit? Crypt Ghouls right?

[cb4n28]

So CA has done a great job interpreting the lore of TW imho, but they've definitely made some mistakes in bringing the lore into the mechanics of the game. What lore breaking stuff really gets your goat? I know the easy answer for a lot of people is Cylostra, but honestly my opinion is that she fits about as well as a lot of the off the wall stuff in the lore. I mean this is a world that has a lot of crazy fantasy stuff in it.

That said, it continues to drive me nuts that Crypt Ghouls are considered undead. Watching a Strigoi Ghoul King raise them from the ground like they were zombies bugs me every time. The fact that they crumble and disintegrate when other potential Counts units (Crossbowmen and Riflemen retreat) is maddening. They aren't undead, according to the lore, but are undead in the game. It's just weird and frustrating.

What are your lore breaks that drive you nuts?

[RCMidas]

Wouldn't you also feel the same about (Master) Necromancers, including Kemmler and Ghorst, who are not technically dead yet?

[MadArtillery]

All the vampire count units that arn't undead but crumble annoy me as well.

[cb4n28]

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Wouldn't you also feel the same about (Master) Necromancers, including Kemmler and Ghorst, who are not technically dead yet?

Great point

[RED /(Weber)\]

The Poison Wind Globadiers should be anti infantry and the Death Globadiers should be anti large (or Poison Wind Mortars, you never see Death wind in siege battles anyway).

[LeeJP]

Originally posted by cb4n28:

So CA has done a great job interpreting the lore of TW imho, but they've definitely made some mistakes in bringing the lore into the mechanics of the game. What lore breaking stuff really gets your goat? I know the easy answer for a lot of people is Cylostra, but honestly my opinion is that she fits about as well as a lot of the off the wall stuff in the lore. I mean this is a world that has a lot of crazy fantasy stuff in it.

That said, it continues to drive me nuts that Crypt Ghouls are considered undead. Watching a Strigoi Ghoul King raise them from the ground like they were zombies bugs me every time. The fact that they crumble and disintegrate when other potential Counts units (Crossbowmen and Riflemen retreat) is maddening. They aren't undead, according to the lore, but are undead in the game. It's just weird and frustrating.

What are your lore breaks that drive you nuts?

Fell Bats also aren't Undead, but are classified as Undead.

And hell, Vampires shouldn't have any binding either. A Vampire's Sire being killed doesn't kill them too. Otherwise the entire Von Carstein bloodline would've died when Vlad did.

Also speaking of Vampires, not that it's lore breaking, but was there any lore basis for the Depth Guard? It's perfectly plausible, but I just don't remember anything like them actually being mentioned before the game.

[Greldinart]

quite all my lord are breaking it...
the upkeep skill shouldnt be there, quite all my lord are forced 10 first lvl in economic tree that forbide them to developp true skill like heroes did...
does strolk lord is a powerfull caster ?...no 10sp in economic, 10other in army...not enough point for boost magic^^

[Conflagration]

Originally posted by LeeJP:

Originally posted by cb4n28:

So CA has done a great job interpreting the lore of TW imho, but they've definitely made some mistakes in bringing the lore into the mechanics of the game. What lore breaking stuff really gets your goat? I know the easy answer for a lot of people is Cylostra, but honestly my opinion is that she fits about as well as a lot of the off the wall stuff in the lore. I mean this is a world that has a lot of crazy fantasy stuff in it.

That said, it continues to drive me nuts that Crypt Ghouls are considered undead. Watching a Strigoi Ghoul King raise them from the ground like they were zombies bugs me every time. The fact that they crumble and disintegrate when other potential Counts units (Crossbowmen and Riflemen retreat) is maddening. They aren't undead, according to the lore, but are undead in the game. It's just weird and frustrating.

What are your lore breaks that drive you nuts?

Fell Bats also aren't Undead, but are classified as Undead.

And hell, Vampires shouldn't have any binding either. A Vampire's Sire being killed doesn't kill them too. Otherwise the entire Von Carstein bloodline would've died when Vlad did.

Also speaking of Vampires, not that it's lore breaking, but was there any lore basis for the Depth Guard? It's perfectly plausible, but I just don't remember anything like them actually being mentioned before the game.

No, they're one of many CA originals.

[Wyvern]

Crypt ghouls were treated as undead in TT, and CA just copied that, might as well criticize GW for how they were designed.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Crypt ghouls were treated as undead in TT, and CA just copied that, might as well criticize GW for how they were designed.

^ Yep, that's correct. At some point, undead rules were getting too complicated and they just erased them and considered every VC units as undead to simplify the whole thing. So while not being true to the lore, it is at least keeping up with the former TT rules.

[cb4n28]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Crypt ghouls were treated as undead in TT, and CA just copied that, might as well criticize GW for how they were designed.

^ Yep, that's correct. At some point, undead rules were getting too complicated and they just erased them and considered every VC units as undead to simplify the whole thing. So while not being true to the lore, it is at least keeping up with the former TT rules.

Ok, I guess that makes sense... well if it was still a bunch of human brains having to keep track of all the rules. Today though Intel and AMD have to remember all this, and as CA has already demonstrated, they are capable of distinguishing between routing and crumbling units in one army. Counts should have gotten these relatively minor changes when they got an update at the Coast release. Crypt Ghouls are not little Crypt Horrors, they are the living decendents of a tribes of humans corrupted by necrotic energies into slavering cannibals

[RCMidas]

Originally posted by cb4n28:

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

^ Yep, that's correct. At some point, undead rules were getting too complicated and they just erased them and considered every VC units as undead to simplify the whole thing. So while not being true to the lore, it is at least keeping up with the former TT rules.

Ok, I guess that makes sense... well if it was still a bunch of human brains having to keep track of all the rules. Today though Intel and AMD have to remember all this, and as CA has already demonstrated, they are capable of distinguishing between routing and crumbling units in one army. Counts should have gotten these relatively minor changes when they got an update at the Coast release. Crypt Ghouls are not little Crypt Horrors, they are the living decendents of a tribes of humans corrupted by necrotic energies into slavering cannibals

Then suggest it to the devs. Otherwise, no change will happen GUARANTEED.

[A.Pot]

For me its, Empire making more than 8 Steam Tanks

[powk36]

I have an issue with the Tomb Kings, are they allergic to glass lands and temperate climates? Why exactly do they have issues in colonizing those areas? sure its not 'Red' area, but like theyre vampire offspring, there isnt any reason that it shouldnt be a green terrain for them. They thrive in desert, Jungles, etc. (Khatep even thrives in mountains)... But they see 1 blade of grass on the ground... "!!!! OH hell no, we aint unliving here". Granted, im not a WH lore person, so please correct me, but this seems insanely worthy. (note.. ik its not a unit that lore busts, but it bugs the H out of me, and like those units your talking about, im thinking this isnt really lore worthy either)

[Delta]

Originally posted by RED Floyd /(Weber)\:

The Poison Wind Globadiers should be anti infantry and the Death Globadiers should be anti large (or Poison Wind Mortars, you never see Death wind in siege battles anyway).

why should the Deathwind Globadiers be anti-large?

[Dominic]

Originally posted by cb4n28:

What lore breaking stuff really gets your goat?
That said, it continues to drive me nuts that Crypt Ghouls are considered undead. Watching a Strigoi Ghoul King raise them from the ground like they were zombies bugs me every time.

"Undead Crumble" originally existed in 3rd Ed Warhammer Undead, it only applied to Zombies, and it was, if they lost a melee combat, and failed a leadership check, the entire unit collapsed.
In the next Army Book, which was either another undead, or a the first Vampire Counts
"Undead Crumble" applied to all undead units, which included Vampires, of which there no Strigoi yet, but did not include Necromancers and Ghouls.
But rather than a total collapse, they suffered greater damage if they lost combat.
In the following book, it was decided this was, confusing, and Ghouls and Necromancers gained the full undead unbreakable but extra deaths rules. Strigoi Vampires arrived, but no Crypt Horrors, they came quite a bit later.