No Denuvo warning on store page?

[76561188078797539]

Funny, could have sworn other games have a big "This product uses Denuvo" box on their store page.

There isn't even any "internet connection required" in System Requirements. Aside from a short paragraph in the EULA, no bloody mention of the crapware bundled.

Nice try, CA and SEGA, but no. On the other hand, the lack of advance warning is pretty damn glaring.

[zefyris]

Mactalon původně napsal:

zefyris původně napsal:

Protecting launch sales in a game is a huge concern for developpers, you can't blame them from using denuvo at launch.
Depending of the version, some games still were cracked in the following hours, some in the following days, and some lasted like a month. BUT it's definitely worth it to try and hope that it last at least a few days for your game.

Now, some developpers remove denuvo from the game once the game has been successfully cracked, which is something I appreciate.
Say what you want about Denuvo, but no denuvo will never run worse than with denuvo, and once cracked it doesn''t have any use for the devs either.

Unfortunately Sega and Sony for example AFAIk never do that, and CA has Sega for publisher, so that ain't happening.

Still; I can indeed voice that the TW WH games didn't cause me any problem on my SSDs until now.
But you could argue as well that the game may be able to run more smoothly without it, so that's that.

You can't argue something that there's literally no evidence for XD

But there's no evidence against it either. That's why I said 'may". yo ucan't say peoples saying it could make the game run more smoothly are wrong, and especiall ysince that game is so ressource heavy, it makes sense that denuvo isn't helping.

[☘♥♥♥♥♥♥Ireland]

Mactalon původně napsal:

zefyris původně napsal:

Protecting launch sales in a game is a huge concern for developpers, you can't blame them from using denuvo at launch.
Depending of the version, some games still were cracked in the following hours, some in the following days, and some lasted like a month. BUT it's definitely worth it to try and hope that it last at least a few days for your game.

Now, some developpers remove denuvo from the game once the game has been successfully cracked, which is something I appreciate.
Say what you want about Denuvo, but no denuvo will never run worse than with denuvo, and once cracked it doesn''t have any use for the devs either.

Unfortunately Sega and Sony for example AFAIk never do that, and CA has Sega for publisher, so that ain't happening.

Still; I can indeed voice that the TW WH games didn't cause me any problem on my SSDs until now.
But you could argue as well that the game may be able to run more smoothly without it, so that's that.

You can't argue something that there's literally no evidence for XD

If that were true there wouldn't be any of the numerous denovo conspiracy threads and yet they exist despite a total lack of evidence to support thier "theory".

[Mactalon]

zefyris původně napsal:

Mactalon původně napsal:

You can't argue something that there's literally no evidence for XD

But there's no evidence against it either. That's why I said 'may". yo ucan't say peoples saying it could make the game run more smoothly are wrong, and especiall ysince that game is so ressource heavy, it makes sense that denuvo isn't helping.

You do realise that trying to prove a negative is a complete non-argument right?

When there's no evidence for a theory, saying there's nothing to disprove the theory is a nonsensical statement that means absolutely nothing.

No, it doesnt' make sense that denuvo isn't helping since there is no evidence to prove it has any effect whatsoever on performance, which is what we just said XD

[Best Pureeyaa]

zefyris původně napsal:

Mactalon původně napsal:

You can't argue something that there's literally no evidence for XD

But there's no evidence against it either. That's why I said 'may". yo ucan't say peoples saying it could make the game run more smoothly are wrong, and especiall ysince that game is so ressource heavy, it makes sense that denuvo isn't helping.

Are you a religions believer? That's the same logic they use.

[RED /(Weber)\]

Why is Denuvo such a hangup for some people?

[zefyris]

Mactalon původně napsal:

zefyris původně napsal:

But there's no evidence against it either. That's why I said 'may". yo ucan't say peoples saying it could make the game run more smoothly are wrong, and especiall ysince that game is so ressource heavy, it makes sense that denuvo isn't helping.

You do realise that trying to prove a negative is a complete non-argument right?

When there's no evidence for a theory, saying there's nothing to disprove the theory is a nonsensical statement that means absolutely nothing.

No, it doesnt' make sense that denuvo isn't helping since there is no evidence to prove it has any effect whatsoever on performance, which is what we just said XD

You don't understand that it's not my point and you aggroed me faster than a murloc and over literally nothing. Which kind of sounds like a murloc as well, so I may as well ask : are you a murloc? And if not, I definitely didn't steal your sandwich, so no need to come at me like that.
My point was that I can't say if peoples saying that it slow down the game and impact performance are wrong or not. Not that they're right. So you aggroing and saying "you can't say they're right!" changes nothing since from the start I'm well aware of that. But just because there's no proof easily found about something doesn't mean it's not correct. An unproven theory is just a theory, not a false claim, until proven false.
We're not in front of a judge here, the burden of proof doesn't fall on anyone's shoulders by default. *SMH*

[Mactalon]

zefyris původně napsal:

Mactalon původně napsal:

You do realise that trying to prove a negative is a complete non-argument right?

When there's no evidence for a theory, saying there's nothing to disprove the theory is a nonsensical statement that means absolutely nothing.

No, it doesnt' make sense that denuvo isn't helping since there is no evidence to prove it has any effect whatsoever on performance, which is what we just said XD

You don't understand that it's not my point and you aggroed me faster than a murloc and over literally nothing. Which kind of sounds like a murloc as well, so I may as well ask : are you a murloc? And if not, I definitely didn't steal your sandwich, so no need to come at me like that.
My point was that I can't say if peoples saying that it slow down the game and impact performance are wrong or not. Not that they're right. So you aggroing and saying "you can't say they're right!" changes nothing since from the start I'm well aware of that. But just because there's no proof easily found about something doesn't mean it's not correct. An unproven theory is just a theory, not a false claim, until proven false.
We're not in front of a judge here, the burden of proof doesn't fall on anyone's shoulders by default. *SMH*

Well, first of all there was no aggro, I was just pointing out a very basic truth to start with, you decided to argue against it for some reason.

You seem to be reading it aggressively for some reason but really I'm just bewildered why you're trying to argue a line of false logic that we learn in primary school is silly.

If you actually read what I said, I also never said "You can't say they're right!", you literally made that up out of nowhere. I know you don't think they're right, but I'm pointing out that your actual stance about there being no evidence to disprove it is also incredibly silly, just in a different way.

Yes, you're right, an unproven theory is just a theory, but to actually BE a theory it needs to have some kind of grounding in an evidentiary line, or else it's just nonsense.

These words you just said "But just because there's no proof easily found about something doesn't mean it's not correct" don't actually have any relevance on anything. It's not about it being easily found or not, it's that there's none.

You can't disprove something that doesn't exist or have foundation in the first place. To disprove the theory, there needs to be something to argue against.

If there's no evidence of something being true, there's no reason to take the thought seriously in any way. Saying "there's no evidence against it either" really doesn't mean anything.

The argument has exactly equal standing to "Aliens are causing performance issues". There's no evidence for it, there's no evidence to disprove it, which means it's not even a theory, it's just nonsense.

Do you see the circles it goes in? I really do get what you're saying, it's just wrong :P

[☘♥♥♥♥♥♥Ireland]

Also the burden of proof always falls to the person making some kind of assertation For instance: Denovo is bad.

It falls on the person saying that to prove their statement.

[76561188078797539]

II-6th LA (B) Cpl. Longstreet původně napsal:

Also the burden of proof always falls to the person making some kind of assertation For instance: Denovo is bad.

It falls on the person saying that to prove their statement.

Yeah, and every time somebody claims that Earth is round you also demand a scientific proof of this.

The problems with Denuvo have been discussed so many times that they are common knowledge. At this point anybody going "nyah nyah nyah nothing wrong Denuvo lulz piratez conspiracy tinfoil hat!" is plain outright trolling.

Denuvo puts a planned expiration date on your games. As soon as the publisher pulls the authentication servers for that specific game, you lose it. Meanwhile, I can still play non-DRM games from early 90s without such problems.

Denuvo runs authentication servers through Amazon's AWS service. The TOS of Amazon's AWS means the user agrees to share all data going through the servers. Given how Denuvo pulls your hardware fingerprints (at the least, in order to authenticate - might also use common software for fingerprinting), that gives Amazon all that profitable and 100% accurate information. Considering how the exact implementation of Denuvo is so hush-hush, and purposefully obfuscated to start with, it can do more. The previous software from the same folks that made Denuvo sure liked to trojan its way onto a machine and stay there. So then there's privacy and security concerns, too.

Denuvo is a for-profit software. The same (reportedly six figure at least) figure blown on it could have been put instead into actual development budget. Don't know about you, but I'm not overly fond of games releasing in beta state nowadays and treating paying consumers as often ignored unpaid QA staff.

Now are the questionable claims. Denuvo will, by its very nature, impact the working of your computer (meaning slow it down), but whether or not it is something noticable is up for debate. Especially since Denuvo seems to be putting a lot of money into their "PR" campaign and reliable information is pretty much reserved to mostly private forums of the cracker groups. There certainly have been instances where removal of Denuvo made the game run faster (Doom, was it? Or something, ♥♥♥♥ it, haven't had my dose of caffeine yet, you can find it out yourself), but it could've been due to botched integration. Even so, it does mean the presence of Denuvo can cause performance issues (again, does not have to be because of things on Denuvo's side, just integration issues on the game maker's end). The more layers of software interfacing you have, the better the chance of a major failure.

Then we have the whole issue of customer rights (this actually goes hand-in-hand with privacy concerns). Companies are incresingly indifferent to any ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rights on behalf of their "consumer base." I know most people don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about it (which is why things are the way they are, especially in God-bless-our-"Free Market" USoA), but you might want to consider that support of Denuvo is an indirect way of telling these companies "hey, you can screw us up some more, we don't care!"

Denuvo is a fantastic tool of market control (this ties in with the 'planned obsoletion" part). DRM was introduced not to fight piracy (hehe, please - even Denuvo recently got cracked pretty much Day 0 on some games), but to destroy used games market. Something that happened to have been perfectly legal. EU recently introduced a law allowing re-sale of digital goods (though it is not applicable to Steam games, for instance, since you don't own them - you only "buy" access licenses from Steam). But, the EU law may actually be applicable to game KEYS (big distinction). Who knows, it hasn't been tested in court yet. Point being, Denuvo preemptively gives companies a tool to destroy such a market (and, for the record, I think the "key resellers" on the market right now are immoral parasites that should be regulated to hell and back before they do too much damage to indies - you can read some more on it on your own, not going to derail with another wall of text explaining why).

Denuvo also is a great way of preventing any creative works from entering the common domain. I personally consider computer games an art form. Imagine our culture without access to all the literary works from centuries of history.


♥♥♥♥, I'm sure there's far more than I wrote, but like I mentioned - still haven't had my caffeine shot. You sure as ♥♥♥♥ can find more information on the issues with the tiniest amount of effort. It's the one thing the internets is good at.

Yeah, I know. Most of you don't give a fig about any of that. That does not mean these aren't valid issues, even if you butterflies can't take a moment to think them over long-term.

"Consumers" only get to keep the rights they fight for, and the new generation has proven way too easily manipulated by bloody corporate propaganda. The fact that people are defending Denuvo, and absolutely abhorent anti-consumer practice, in this very thread is as much proof of it as you need.

/rant. Time for me quintuple-espreso to get human and to try to forget all the morons co-habitating this world.

[Longtoke]

Sheepify původně napsal:

The problems with Denuvo have been discussed so many times that they are common knowledge. At this point anybody going "nyah nyah nyah nothing wrong Denuvo lulz piratez conspiracy tinfoil hat!" is plain outright trolling.

Clearly by the responses of some here and in part due to steams policy regarding such discussions, many here may not be aware of the extensive debate. Surely being such an enlightened detractor of denuvo as you are, you can provide some evidence easily rather than an assertion relying on a reverse onus of proof.

Sheepify původně napsal:

Denuvo puts a planned expiration date on your games. As soon as the publisher pulls the authentication servers for that specific game, you lose it. Meanwhile, I can still play non-DRM games from early 90s without such problems.

Fair call, im in the same category as yourself, having an extensive collection of old school games accrued over 20 plus years of gaming. The funny thing is it's not copy protection that prevents me playing them these days, its the outdated antiquated software itself that won't run on a modern OS without a fair amount of stuffing around. You also have the plain and simple fact that we as end users of the software only LEASE it, we own nothing and it's been that way since EULA's came to be. Have you ever read the EULA ??

Sheepify původně napsal:

Denuvo runs authentication servers through Amazon's AWS service. The TOS of Amazon's AWS means the user agrees to share all data going through the servers. Given how Denuvo pulls your hardware fingerprints (at the least, in order to authenticate - might also use common software for fingerprinting), that gives Amazon all that profitable and 100% accurate information. Considering how the exact implementation of Denuvo is so hush-hush, and purposefully obfuscated to start with, it can do more. The previous software from the same folks that made Denuvo sure liked to trojan its way onto a machine and stay there. So then there's privacy and security concerns, too.

There's also such a thing as anonymous data or data that has been gathered and deliberately stripped of any personal information to ensure anonymity. Many western countries have laws to govern such situations and this isn't a denuvo exclusive issue.

Sheepify původně napsal:

Denuvo is a for-profit software. The same (reportedly six figure at least) figure blown on it could have been put instead into actual development budget. Don't know about you, but I'm not overly fond of games releasing in beta state nowadays and treating paying consumers as often ignored unpaid QA staff.

You mean like every "open beta" game being sold on steam, one of the companies most responsible for the proliferation of paid beta's and unfinished games being retailed ?. It's ironic your using the platform most responsible for treataing customers as unpaid QA, and likely using an OS that is in persistent beta with its updates ( go read up on Microsofts policy for windows 10 updates and the future of windows in general ).

Sheepify původně napsal:

Now are the questionable claims. Denuvo will, by its very nature, impact the working of your computer (meaning slow it down), but whether or not it is something noticable is up for debate. Especially since Denuvo seems to be putting a lot of money into their "PR" campaign and reliable information is pretty much reserved to mostly private forums of the cracker groups. There certainly have been instances where removal of Denuvo made the game run faster (Doom, was it? Or something, ♥♥♥♥ it, haven't had my dose of caffeine yet, you can find it out yourself), but it could've been due to botched integration. Even so, it does mean the presence of Denuvo can cause performance issues (again, does not have to be because of things on Denuvo's side, just integration issues on the game maker's end). The more layers of software interfacing you have, the better the chance of a major failure.

Granted there may well have been instances of denuvo effecting game performance as you describe, but as you also conceed its questionable and up for debate. Again, by all means, if you such an informed person do enlighten us all with proof and real world example of such, then a debate can be had. For someone claiming to not have this information readily available due to lack of caffene at the time of writing, you sure did seem to have a lot to type.

Sheepify původně napsal:

Then we have the whole issue of customer rights (this actually goes hand-in-hand with privacy concerns). Companies are incresingly indifferent to any ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rights on behalf of their "consumer base." I know most people don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about it (which is why things are the way they are, especially in God-bless-our-"Free Market" USoA), but you might want to consider that support of Denuvo is an indirect way of telling these companies "hey, you can screw us up some more, we don't care!"

Well, we're now to outright outlandish claims and false assertions now i see.....can you supply a source for you claim "most people don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about it" when it comes to their consumer rights. The sad fact your overlooking ( perhaps you're lacking the age to remember this era ) was the fight for consumer rights against intrusive DRM was fought and lost nearly 2 decades ago. Steam itself is a great example of that, you used to be able to buy a physical copy of a game from a store without it being bundled with that now very common *Steam registration required or Origin, or Uplay etc etc etc etc. You give Denuvo far to much credit here, im sorry to say, the proverbial horse has bolted so long ago it's a fly ridded red streak on a distant highway.....and now you want to shut the gate ?? lol

Sheepify původně napsal:

Denuvo is a fantastic tool of market control (this ties in with the 'planned obsoletion" part). DRM was introduced not to fight piracy (hehe, please - even Denuvo recently got cracked pretty much Day 0 on some games), but to destroy used games market. Something that happened to have been perfectly legal. EU recently introduced a law allowing re-sale of digital goods (though it is not applicable to Steam games, for instance, since you don't own them - you only "buy" access licenses from Steam). But, the EU law may actually be applicable to game KEYS (big distinction). Who knows, it hasn't been tested in court yet. Point being, Denuvo preemptively gives companies a tool to destroy such a market (and, for the record, I think the "key resellers" on the market right now are immoral parasites that should be regulated to hell and back before they do too much damage to indies - you can read some more on it on your own, not going to derail with another wall of text explaining why).

"Planned obsoletion" is not a new concept brought about by denuvo, nor PC software for that matter, it's been a thing since the light globe was invented. The used game market ? another long ago fought and lost battle, again not attributable to Denuvo solely or by any meaningful measure.

Sheepify původně napsal:

Denuvo also is a great way of preventing any creative works from entering the common domain. I personally consider computer games an art form. Imagine our culture without access to all the literary works from centuries of history.

You just shot yourself down with your own comment in one phrase, i'm impressed ! Go read up on copyright laws, which were brought about due to literary works being regarded as intelectual property and the protection of it accordingly. It's like your complaining about the book you haven't bought because it's got a copyright notation in it.

.......Continued next post due to steam post size limit.

[Longtoke]

Sheepify původně napsal:

♥♥♥♥, I'm sure there's far more than I wrote, but like I mentioned - still haven't had my caffeine shot. You sure as ♥♥♥♥ can find more information on the issues with the tiniest amount of effort. It's the one thing the internets is good at.

lol, are you sure you done ?? it's quite an impressive wall of subjective text lacking any substance for someone short on caffene. Please do post a reply though, as i've said above I do look forwrd to seeing some of the real world examples you have to offer on any denuvo effected game, let alone this one ( which i note you don't own ).

Sheepify původně napsal:

Yeah, I know. Most of you don't give a fig about any of that. That does not mean these aren't valid issues, even if you butterflies can't take a moment to think them over long-term.

The battle was fought and lost long ago sadly. That said, there's nothing stopping you or anyone else excercising their consumer right to not buy the game, as we can see you have done, but I question what exactly you hope to achieve spouting unsupported garbage to a community who have already bought the game.

Sheepify původně napsal:

"Consumers" only get to keep the rights they fight for, and the new generation has proven way too easily manipulated by bloody corporate propaganda. The fact that people are defending Denuvo, and absolutely abhorent anti-consumer practice, in this very thread is as much proof of it as you need.

/rant. Time for me quintuple-espreso to get human and to try to forget all the morons co-habitating this world.

Just lol..........You're implying the entire customer base for this game let alone any other denuvo title are the millenial's ?, you're grossly missinformed my friend. No we're not defending denuvo ( or DRM for that matter ), we're just not buying into the anti-denuvo propogranda you're pushing, especially when you type such a wall of text without a single link to anything to confirm the multiple assertions you've made.

But please, don't let me stop you, do provide some links ;)

[Grubbs008]

Some people are just straight up idiots.. If you are ever in doubt, look here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denuvo

Every single game that has Denuvo, will be displayed almost a month before release.. Get it? Got it? Good.

[76561188078797539]

Longtoke původně napsal:

Clearly by the responses of some here and in part due to steams policy regarding such discussions, many here may not be aware of the extensive debate.

Then they shouldn't throw their ignorant opinion about as valid, should they? Especially since it takes about 10 minutes of easy search to get at least some idea of the scope of the issue.

Longtoke původně napsal:

Surely being such an enlightened detractor of denuvo as you are, you can provide some evidence easily rather than an assertion relying on a reverse onus of proof.

Yeah, let me put on my miracle cap and summarize decade of assorted reading in a quick handy post beyond what I already did.

Oh, wait. That didn't count.

Longtoke původně napsal:

Fair call, im in the same category as yourself, having an extensive collection of old school games accrued over 20 plus years of gaming. The funny thing is it's not copy protection that prevents me playing them these days, its the outdated antiquated software itself that won't run on a modern OS without a fair amount of stuffing around. You also have the plain and simple fact that we as end users of the software only LEASE it, we own nothing and it's been that way since EULA's came to be. Have you ever read the EULA ??

Every single ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ one for every game I've owned since about 2003. Guess what - EULA often contain non-enforcable clauses, or things that are outright against local laws and do not apply. Hence the "residents of California" sub-clauses in most of them, as an example.

I can work around emulating old OS on a newer system. Or if I can't, there are plenty of other people on the internet that will figure it out for me.

You can't do ♥♥♥♥ about Denuvo authentication servers, because a) the authentication communication is purposefully obfuscated to make it as hard to decode as possible, b) the level of knowledge required to even start figuring it out is so specialized very few people will do that for free.

Give me a break.

Longtoke původně napsal:

There's also such a thing as anonymous data or data that has been gathered and deliberately stripped of any personal information to ensure anonymity. Many western countries have laws to govern such situations and this isn't a denuvo exclusive issue.

Since you're such an expert you do realize the "anonymous" information is often blatantly easy to use to figure out an individual user?

Or that "anonymous data", because the laws have yet to catch up with technology (well, GDPR is at least somewhere along), also include individual hardware/software fingerprints that uniquely identify your computer, but because legally your computer is NOT a person, it is considered "anonymous" despite the fact that modern algos can easily differentiate even between several different users accessing the same machine?

♥♥♥♥, that's what Google, Facebook, Amazon, and the rest are making billions of dollars on.

Your "anonymous" information is hardly that.

I mean, have fun arguing with MIT folks, among others: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/536501/data-sets-not-so-anonymous/

Longtoke původně napsal:

You mean like every "open beta" game being sold on steam, one of the companies most responsible for the proliferation of paid beta's and unfinished games being retailed ?. It's ironic your using the platform most responsible for treataing customers as unpaid QA, and likely using an OS that is in persistent beta with its updates ( go read up on Microsofts policy for windows 10 updates and the future of windows in general ).

Nice fishing, but I don't use Windows 10. And no, I don't have MS' telemetry on my machine, either, since I filtered out those updates and stopped them altogether after MS started bundling everything together.

You are being purposefully disingenious. There is absolutely no argument to the fact that Denuvo budget takes away from production budget. From a gamer's perspective, there is also no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reason you would support the former from the latter.

Longtoke původně napsal:

Granted there may well have been instances of denuvo effecting game performance as you describe, but as you also conceed its questionable and up for debate. Again, by all means, if you such an informed person do enlighten us all with proof and real world example of such, then a debate can be had. For someone claiming to not have this information readily available due to lack of caffene at the time of writing, you sure did seem to have a lot to type.

♥♥♥♥. Off.

You want to come off as such a reasonable person and can't spend 20 seconds of effort to validate this claim? I'm not writing a master thesis, do your own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ homework or you have no place in a factual discussion:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/06/crackers-say-denuvo-drm-caused-slowdown-on-rime/

The fact that you are questioning an argument that adding complicated interfacing such as Denuvo to a program will have no effect on it means you are unqualified (or unwilling) to participate in objective discussion.

You add more code, ♥♥♥♥ happens. You add something that does not have clear documentation on how it interacts with the OS, chances are pretty damn good something will blow up in the process.

Longtoke původně napsal:

Well, we're now to outright outlandish claims and false assertions now i see.....can you supply a source for you claim "most people don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about it" when it comes to their consumer rights.

Oh, kindly ♥♥♥♥ off.

This thread alone is sufficient proof. If you are so learned on the history of DRM, you have the proof there, too.

Whataboutism is not a valid conversational tool.

Longtoke původně napsal:

"Planned obsoletion" is not a new concept brought about by denuvo, nor PC software for that matter, it's been a thing since the light globe was invented. The used game market ? another long ago fought and lost battle, again not attributable to Denuvo solely or by any meaningful measure.

Hey, ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Denuvo means games will expire. Aside from any other online-authentication DRM, there was no such prior possibility.

Longtoke původně napsal:

You just shot yourself down with your own comment in one phrase, i'm impressed ! Go read up on copyright laws, which were brought about due to literary works being regarded as intelectual property and the protection of it accordingly. It's like your complaining about the book you haven't bought because it's got a copyright notation in it.

Hey, Mr. Expert on Copyrights, then you are also aware that originally copyright was extended to about 10 years after publication of the book, and not the functionally perpetual monster it has become (what is it now, "lifetime of author + 100 years?")

Denuvo means your game will expire when the publisher wants it (or disappears). Prior to online authentication DRM, there was no such thing.

Longtoke původně napsal:

The battle was fought and lost long ago sadly. That said, there's nothing stopping you or anyone else excercising their consumer right to not buy the game, as we can see you have done, but I question what exactly you hope to achieve spouting unsupported garbage to a community who have already bought the game.

You are what constitutes a "useful idiot." The "battle" is neverending, because as I noted originally - the only rights you get to keep are the ones you keep fighting for.

Laws are societal construct, and change accordingly with swings in societal perception of things. There is literally nothing that says stricter consumer protection laws cannot be re-introduced (I mean, hello ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ GDPR?), but cretins like you with their sad song about how everything is useless and futile certainly don't help.

Especially when morons keep defending anti-consumer practices in the same breath.

Longtoke původně napsal:

Just lol..........You're implying the entire customer base for this game let alone any other denuvo title are the millenial's ?, you're grossly missinformed my friend.

I'm not your friend.

And if you followed industry trends, you'd see that big budget titles like Total War are aimed at younger bracket of demographics (20-30 years old). The very ones that you can sell ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to if you wrap it around in shiny graphics.

Remember when Rome: Total War came out and it turned out CA blew ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of production budget on marketing instead of actual coders? Pepperidge ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ farm remembers.

Longtoke původně napsal:

No we're not defending denuvo ( or DRM for that matter ), we're just not buying into the anti-denuvo propogranda you're pushing, especially when you type such a wall of text without a single link to anything to confirm the multiple assertions you've made.

Ooh, look at you being so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ "reasonable."

"I'm not defending but I'm defending" lunacy. You want proof? You can't handle... well, clearly spending 20 seconds looking for your own validation of it. Nothing I wrote is an overly difficult concept to grasp, or validate in a very short time.

And no, I have no intention of feeding blatant trolling with "buh buh buh proofs!" I spent too much time falling for that before only to have them hand-waved (or more likely ignored) to bother anymore.

TL;DR:

Denuvo means any game with it will become unplayable. You don't get a say in when it happens, the company paying for Denuvo authentication servers for that specific title does. The company decides it's time to kill the servers, your game dies. The company dies, your game dies.

So, why the ♥♥♥♥ would you morons be defending something that puts an expiration tag on something you pay for, all the other issues with Denuvo notwithstanding?

[76561188078797539]

Grubbs008 původně napsal:

Some people are just straight up idiots.. If you are ever in doubt, look here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denuvo

Every single game that has Denuvo, will be displayed almost a month before release.. Get it? Got it? Good.

Well, maybe some of us would still like to play our shiny AAA titles without supporting anti-consumer business practices?

I mean, just an idea, but maybe that's why you see complaits about it on the forums. You know. Vain hope that somebody involved in the decision-making on whether to blow money on such idiotic "security" measures, ones that get removed by hobbyists frequently enough even before the release, might go "hey, wait a minute, maybe we should pays for some more code moneys instead so the game is a bit better?"

I know, wild assumption...

[Old Dirty Bingo Caller]

Yawn