Lore question: Why are Lizardfolk and Hight Elves enemies, regarding the completation of the rituals?

[Bruno Magno]

I am playing with the Lizardfolk and i initialy had some good realtions with some high elves factions, but as i progressed in some rituals, i started to get a diplomatic penaltie with them.
I can understand the Dark Elves and Skaven not being happy with the Lizard rituals, but the Hight Elves shouldnt mind, after all, they also want to prevent the chaos damons(old enemy) from entering the world. Is there a reason for this(in lore terms) or is just a mechanick to increse the dificulty of the game?

[Black Hammer]

The Warhammer lore is constructed at its heart to provide excuses for any army to be fighting any army at any time, with the added bonus of being nearly anywhere.

The High Elf and Lizardmen point of friction tends to be conflicting ideas of superiority: the Lizardmen believe only they can see the Old Ones' plan through to fruition, while the High Elves tend to think their own ideas are better.

So they agree on the concept of stopping chaos, but how exactly differs.

[Bruno Magno]

Thank you, Black Hammer.

[Vacca]

There's a funny lore story about Lizardmen and High Elves relations. Once, a High Elf delegation heard of a particularly famous tribe of Lizardmen in the jungles of Lustria led by a very old and wise Slann, and as such, decided to pay homage to him. Having reached the Lizard's city, they were brought in front of the Slann. The Slann, after having pondered about these elves for about half a day, said to himself, "These creatures shouldn't be here", referring to the fact that High Elves should be in Ulthuan, not in Lustria. But the loyal Saurian, having heard such words, before the Slann said anymore proceeded without hesitation to kill and maim every single elf standing in the room, having understood the Slann's words as a command to remove the Elves at once.

There you go, now you have a nice story to tell your children before bed AND realize why Lizardmen relations are particularly tricky.

[Free Luigi M.]

Originally posted by Vacca:

There's a funny lore story about Lizardmen and High Elves relations. Once, a High Elf delegation heard of a particularly famous tribe of Lizardmen in the jungles of Lustria led by a very old and wise Slann, and as such, decided to pay homage to him. Having reached the Lizard's city, they were brought in front of the Slann. The Slann, after having pondered about these elves for about half a day, said to himself, "These creatures shouldn't be here", referring to the fact that High Elves should be in Ulthuan, not in Lustria. But the loyal Saurian, having heard such words, before the Slann said anymore proceeded without hesitation to kill and maim every single elf standing in the room, having understood the Slann's words as a command to remove the Elves at once.

There you go, now you have a nice story to tell your children before bed AND realize why Lizardmen relations are particularly tricky.

Lizardmen communications need some serious work man.
If that happened, imagine what kind of disasters they can do with battle orders and other important stuff.

[Bruno Magno]

Originally posted by Vacca:

There's a funny lore story about Lizardmen and High Elves relations. Once, a High Elf delegation heard of a particularly famous tribe of Lizardmen in the jungles of Lustria led by a very old and wise Slann, and as such, decided to pay homage to him. Having reached the Lizard's city, they were brought in front of the Slann. The Slann, after having pondered about these elves for about half a day, said to himself, "These creatures shouldn't be here", referring to the fact that High Elves should be in Ulthuan, not in Lustria. But the loyal Saurian, having heard such words, before the Slann said anymore proceeded without hesitation to kill and maim every single elf standing in the room, having understood the Slann's words as a command to remove the Elves at once.

There you go, now you have a nice story to tell your children before bed AND realize why Lizardmen relations are particularly tricky.

Well....Saurians dont apperar to be very smart after all.

[Vacca]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Lizardmen communications need some serious work man.
If that happened, imagine what kind of disasters they can do with battle orders and other important stuff.

Hey, they are the perfect soldiers. Just... be very specific about what you ask them to do. If you'd go to a saurian and say something like, "man, would it kill you to relax a little?" he could very well jump out of the window.

[sleeper]

Since I am curious also are the lizardfolk considered an good faction in Warhammer fantasy?
If they are how to they match up with the other good factions in power? I understand that Cathay is the strongest that or the high elves of the good factions.
But what about the lizardfolks

[Vacca]

Originally posted by sleeper:

Since I am curious also are the lizardfolk considered an good faction in Warhammer fantasy?
If they are how to they match up with the other good factions in power? I understand that Cathay is the strongest that or the high elves of the good factions.
But what about the lizardfolks

They are... neutral. They aren't really guided by morals, but by purpose. Their reason for existing is carrying on the Old Ones plan - problem is, nobody really know what that plan is for certain. So you have all these 3rd and 4th generation Slann trying to decrypt this plan by studying ancient text and artefacts, and... well, they try their best. But if for some reason a Slann one day would be lucky enough to find a tablet with "PURGE ALL HUMANS" written on it, you can be sure they'll do it no problem.

[Bruno Magno]

What where(are?) the Old Ones? I know they were somewhat expeled or killed by the Chaos Demons, but what where they? Gods?

[Vacca]

Originally posted by Bruno Magno:

What where(are?) the Old Ones? I know they were somewhat expeled or killed by the Chaos Demons, but what where they? Gods?

Very powerful beings, that basically knew Chaos was going to devour everything and that shaped the Warhammer's world in order to fight them - creating the various races, starting from the Lizardmen (the Slann, to be specific) to help them do that. Aaand then chaos erupted from the warp, the old ones ran the fùck away and... well, we have to clean the mess up.

So no, in short - not gods. Extremely powerful and advanced beings, but I wouldn't consider them gods.

[Free Luigi M.]

Well, any sufficiently powerful and advanced being could be considered a god.
The Chaos Gods aren't technically natural born gods. They are just demons who became extremely powerful.

[Vacca]

True.

[Ghuldarkar]

Originally posted by Vacca:

Originally posted by sleeper:

Since I am curious also are the lizardfolk considered an good faction in Warhammer fantasy?
If they are how to they match up with the other good factions in power? I understand that Cathay is the strongest that or the high elves of the good factions.
But what about the lizardfolks

They are... neutral. They aren't really guided by morals, but by purpose. Their reason for existing is carrying on the Old Ones plan - problem is, nobody really know what that plan is for certain. So you have all these 3rd and 4th generation Slann trying to decrypt this plan by studying ancient text and artefacts, and... well, they try their best. But if for some reason a Slann one day would be lucky enough to find a tablet with "PURGE ALL HUMANS" written on it, you can be sure they'll do it no problem.

Personally I find it easier to think of the various factions in terms of D&D moral system. Lizardmen are either Lawful/Neutral or True Neutral: they follow the Old Ones' plan and tend to keep to themselves.
other factions (by myself):
Empire: Neutral Good, with most variations
Bretonia: Lawful good, classic Paladins
High Elves: Lawful, good to neutral (they can do "evil" stuff but not malicious in their motives)
Wood Elves: True Neutral af (they see all ways of life as valid)
Dark Elves: Chaotic Evil (bask in bloodshed, malicious schemings etc)
Dwarves: Lawful neutral (tradition over everything)
Vampires: Neutral Evil, with different clans branching out (Lahmia more like chaotic neutral to even chaotic good; Blooddragons are lawful neutral as they seek honourable battle; etc.)
Orcs: Chaotic Evil (WAAAGH!)
Ogres: Chaotic Neutral (they're mercenaries and plunderers)
Chaos: Lawful Goo... almost had you there. They're Chaotic Evil af.
Skaven: chaotic Evil (they have their own plans and if they work with you it's for their own benefit)
Tomb Kings: Lawful Evil (they could be convinced to work with you, but mostly they dislike the living and are true to their King Settra, they hate Vampires)

this is not supposed to be definite, but to help give people more of an idea of how to think of the factions. Some are more likely to work together, and I've also seen them grouped into "Order" and "Destruction", which makes for some funny pairings. (like Tomb Kings and Empire being pro Order).

[sleeper]

Originally posted by Vacca:

Originally posted by sleeper:

Since I am curious also are the lizardfolk considered an good faction in Warhammer fantasy?
If they are how to they match up with the other good factions in power? I understand that Cathay is the strongest that or the high elves of the good factions.
But what about the lizardfolks

They are... neutral. They aren't really guided by morals, but by purpose. Their reason for existing is carrying on the Old Ones plan - problem is, nobody really know what that plan is for certain. So you have all these 3rd and 4th generation Slann trying to decrypt this plan by studying ancient text and artefacts, and... well, they try their best. But if for some reason a Slann one day would be lucky enough to find a tablet with "PURGE ALL HUMANS" written on it, you can be sure they'll do it no problem.

Interesting so how would that go the purge of all humans do they stand any chance?

[Vacca]

Originally posted by sleeper:

Originally posted by Vacca:

They are... neutral. They aren't really guided by morals, but by purpose. Their reason for existing is carrying on the Old Ones plan - problem is, nobody really know what that plan is for certain. So you have all these 3rd and 4th generation Slann trying to decrypt this plan by studying ancient text and artefacts, and... well, they try their best. But if for some reason a Slann one day would be lucky enough to find a tablet with "PURGE ALL HUMANS" written on it, you can be sure they'll do it no problem.

Interesting so how would that go the purge of all humans do they stand any chance?

Mh. In all honesty, the lizardmen have one big, big issue - the pools used to create saurian, kroxigors and in general all their servants and troops are unique, and the Slann have no idea how to rebuild them. The more they lose, the worse it gets. The skaven already contaminated quite a lot, in fact. Lizardmen to my eyes are a dying race. Very slowly, very stoically dying, but dying nonetheless.