Vampire counts vs Skaven

[Gazzza]

When mortal empires gets released vampires are gonna have a field day against skaven, they are litterly the hardest of counters to em

-Will hold the line without routing,
-Frontline bolstered with innvocation of nehek
-Wind of death
-Spirit leech
-Everyone causes fear vs a low leadership army
-Graveguard>stormvermin
-Powerful monster based roster
-Terror rout based army
-Raise dead>menace below and is free

And most of all when the vamps win against that 5000+ skaven army, you just gave them a famous battleground to insta raise a huge power army in 1 turn


Will skaven even stand a chance vs vamps in multiplayer/mortal empires?

[Raviollius]

Skaven will be really far away from the VC in the mortal realms campaign, but yeah the Battle Sites will be glorious.

[Gazzza]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Raviollius:

Skaven will be really far away from the VC in the mortal realms campaign, but yeah the Battle Sites will be glorious.

If they add skavenblight and a third faction for em (which should be likely) then they aint too far

[Shirome Artiste]

VC will likely have a field day against early game skaven armies, very true. In addition every unit of clanrats or skavenslaves will only mean more numbers on the battle site value, making it even easier for the VC player to raise better quality units in higher numbers.

Skaven aren't completely out of things mid-to-lategame though.
Stormvermin will hold well enough and don't suffer as much from the fear effect because their leadership is solid enough.
Skaven have some serious ranged options, as well as a lot of glorious AoE power.
Rat Ogres, Doomwheels and Abominations can be a great asset in the inevitable melee slugfest that happens.

Only thing I can see happen is that Skaven lack enough true fast units to prevent VC from getting their cavalry and/or flying monsters into position for maximum effect regardless of how late in the campaign the battle happens.

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Gaz:

Will skaven even stand a chance vs vamps in multiplayer/mortal empires?

This is where stratagy comes into play.
Yes in a straight up fair fight the skaven lose vs pretty much any army.
But the thing about skaven is.
They dont fight fair.

Vampire weaknesses:

1. Need vampire corruption to not lose troops.
   
2. Crumble when losing means lost of entire army.
   
3. No range units what so ever.

If i was playing skaven vs vampire counts i would focus first on trapping them inside there cities.
Attack whereever they didnt have a major army.
I would also focus heavly on attilery.
Sure i might "lose" a few battle's.
But skaven are expendable.
Worst case senario i just keep sending slave armies to die in droves.
I can afford losses even more then the undead can.

You are correct:
In a fair fight the skaven would lose.
But skaven do not fight fair.

[sleeper]

Okay something is wrong here if you send slave armies expendable as they are you still give the vampire counts the opportunity to raise them and make them their army. The more you lose the stronger you make the undead.

[Shandor]

I think Darkelves are already a Hard counter for Skaven. I mean every time Darkelves meet Skaven the Rats run in a matter of Secounds.
The last Siege on Legendary i send one unit of Executeners on the Wall to clean the 5 Skaven Units up there.

[TaurusBully]

Cheese, use ur artillary ammo and retreat, repeat.

[Drahazar]

Skaven will do just fine against VC our spells level the playing field and with the artillary, Warp flamers, Ninja skaven and such we can take the VC just fine. The only worry is early game for skaven once you get Tier 3 which is not hard they do great. Support your local Clan Pestilance

[Hammerstein]

Gutterrunners, Nightrunners with their fire on the move skills, will be really annoying to deal with for VC.

[The Neon Seal]

Warpfire Throwers own everything on the table though.

[Gazzza]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hammerstein:

Gutterrunners, Nightrunners with their fire on the move skills, will be really annoying to deal with for VC.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Neon Seal:

Warpfire Throwers own everything on the table though.

Vamps got plenty of cav and wolves to deal with those tho,

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von sleeper:

Okay something is wrong here if you send slave armies expendable as they are you still give the vampire counts the opportunity to raise them and make them their army. The more you lose the stronger you make the undead.

Raising units cost money.
The entire point of slave armies is that there cheaper to rebuild and spend then the enemies troops.
So lets say you raised 2 or 3 battle fields.
Ok how broke are you now?
That is the entire point.
I can afford to replace my losses quicker then you.
Otherwise the entire plan is worthless.

[cifrelettere]

Plague Monks -- just like in tabletop.

[sleeper]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Malaficus Shaikan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von sleeper:

Okay something is wrong here if you send slave armies expendable as they are you still give the vampire counts the opportunity to raise them and make them their army. The more you lose the stronger you make the undead.

Raising units cost money.
The entire point of slave armies is that there cheaper to rebuild and spend then the enemies troops.
So lets say you raised 2 or 3 battle fields.
Ok how broke are you now?
That is the entire point.
I can afford to replace my losses quicker then you.
Otherwise the entire plan is worthless.

You actually bother with gold I usually cheat there and bascialy just get mountains of gold making that issue for me usless.

[Vacca]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Malaficus Shaikan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von sleeper:

Okay something is wrong here if you send slave armies expendable as they are you still give the vampire counts the opportunity to raise them and make them their army. The more you lose the stronger you make the undead.

Raising units cost money.
The entire point of slave armies is that there cheaper to rebuild and spend then the enemies troops.
So lets say you raised 2 or 3 battle fields.
Ok how broke are you now?
That is the entire point.
I can afford to replace my losses quicker then you.
Otherwise the entire plan is worthless.

Main problem if this actually happens is the raise mechanic. Remember TW1? The more dead people, the better raise dead quality. Which means you won't give him 3 stacks of worthless junk, you'll give him crypt horrors and terrorgheists.