Stupid ambush mechanics

[Locklave]

I'm sieging a Scaven city with an army in it. They attack to break the siege and I'm ambushed...

This is epicly stupid.

edit:

Threads popping up on the main warhammer forums about Skaven ambushing defending garrison. I'm assuming some part of this ability isn't functioning correctly.

[jscjml]

I could have sworn a Skaven army attacked me TWICE while I was sieging a city, and then after that I still had to do the city battle.

[Daliena]

On the plus side, they don't get their walls. Besides, if ANY race would make sense to be able to ambush besiegers, it'd be the Skaven with their tunnels.

Originally posted by aspiring super mario 64 speedrun:

I could have sworn a Skaven army attacked me TWICE while I was sieging a city, and then after that I still had to do the city battle.

Survivors of a failed sally will retreat back inside the city.

[Longtoke]

I take it you tried to retreat when they attacked to break the siege ?

[Locklave]

Originally posted by Longtoke:

I take it you tried to retreat when they attacked to break the siege ?

No, I fought them to maintain the siege and I got ambushed. Their stance is allowing ambushes when it's totally impossible.

Originally posted by Daliena:

On the plus side, they don't get their walls. Besides, if ANY race would make sense to be able to ambush besiegers, it'd be the Skaven with their tunnels.

Dwarves and Orcs also have tunnels. If it worked like that then they should be able to recruit/heal and act normally while sieged, hell they should never run out of supplies as they can just leave at will with their entire army to ambush attackers.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by Locklave:

Originally posted by Longtoke:

I take it you tried to retreat when they attacked to break the siege ?

No, I fought them to maintain the siege and I got ambushed. Their stance is allowing ambushes when it's totally impossible.

Originally posted by Daliena:

On the plus side, they don't get their walls. Besides, if ANY race would make sense to be able to ambush besiegers, it'd be the Skaven with their tunnels.

Dwarves and Orcs also have tunnels. If it worked like that then they should be able to recruit/heal and act normally while sieged, hell they should never run out of supplies as they can just leave at will with their entire army to ambush attackers.

Neither dwarves nor orcs (short of night goblins) are anywhere near on the same level as Skaven when it comes to ambushing, and what comes to their recruitment and whatnot, game balance aside there's also that Skaven settlements are practically never self-sustaining. They'd need to indeed send the entire army out to get food and risk the place being stormed while they were away.

[Locklave]

Originally posted by Daliena:

Neither dwarves nor orcs (short of night goblins) are anywhere near on the same level as Skaven when it comes to ambushing, and what comes to their recruitment and whatnot, game balance aside there's also that Skaven settlements are practically never self-sustaining. They'd need to indeed send the entire army out to get food and risk the place being stormed while they were away.

I really think you should stop trying to explain a clearly broken game mechanic with fluffy lore logic. If they can do this then none of the normal siege mechanics should apply to them, since they all do arguing "scaven are great at ambushes" really doesn't explain anything.

The devs clearly cut and paste the Beastmen ambush stance without considering that the beastmen never had cities so this issue never came up.

[Ronin]

This is fun when you are beseiging and have a 80-90% chance of auto calc win. You just have to wait 1 turn for a battering ram... boom...Skaven ambush. Is it the garrison? No. It's a full stack army, WITH the garrison entail and 9/10 times SKROLK THE BASTAD has been reinforcing. So I get ambushed by 2 full stacks plus back up slingers and arty... Safe to say they are the hardest battles I've ever had in TW and 3 times it's happened I've BARELY made it out alive and had to sacrifice so many elite units just to get a rout going. Can never actually beat them down, they always flee with like 50% of their force remaining. Luckily it allows me to attack and secure the town and walls after the battle. But yeah, skaven ambushes are a pain in the ass.

[Locklave]

Unless sieging means walking your army in circles around a settlement then it's just stupid.

The ambushes are brutal as intended, but they shouldn't be getting applied to sieges like this. This stinks of a lack of testing.

[Trel1305]

Originally posted by Locklave:

Originally posted by Daliena:

Neither dwarves nor orcs (short of night goblins) are anywhere near on the same level as Skaven when it comes to ambushing, and what comes to their recruitment and whatnot, game balance aside there's also that Skaven settlements are practically never self-sustaining. They'd need to indeed send the entire army out to get food and risk the place being stormed while they were away.

I really think you should stop trying to explain a clearly broken game mechanic with fluffy lore logic. If they can do this then none of the normal siege mechanics should apply to them, since they all do arguing "scaven are great at ambushes" really doesn't explain anything.

The devs clearly cut and paste the Beastmen ambush stance without considering that the beastmen never had cities so this issue never came up.

Actually if they are sieging you while in your settlement, thats a bug. But what makes you think Skaven cant ambush you while you are sieging? I have had armies stationary and get ambushed by a skaven army.

Bug or not I dont see anything wrong with that. I actually like that mechanic if its the Skaven doing it alone.

[꧁༺๓คɭ༻꧂]

Only thing i don't like about ambushes is that Allies can foil your ambushes. -.- If we have a common foe and i try to ambush him with a ally nearby its almost instantly foiled. Guess they spot my ambush and tell our common enemy this? xD
Really like ambushes in general. Feel its a vital part of the game, but this should have been looked into along time ago.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by Locklave:

Originally posted by Daliena:

Neither dwarves nor orcs (short of night goblins) are anywhere near on the same level as Skaven when it comes to ambushing, and what comes to their recruitment and whatnot, game balance aside there's also that Skaven settlements are practically never self-sustaining. They'd need to indeed send the entire army out to get food and risk the place being stormed while they were away.

I really think you should stop trying to explain a clearly broken game mechanic with fluffy lore logic. If they can do this then none of the normal siege mechanics should apply to them, since they all do arguing "scaven are great at ambushes" really doesn't explain anything.

The devs clearly cut and paste the Beastmen ambush stance without considering that the beastmen never had cities so this issue never came up.

"Clearly broken" by who's standards? Because it's very much not a universally held opinion. You may think it's broken, I do not and I'm not the only one as demonstrated here.

Originally posted by Locklave:

Unless sieging means walking your army in circles around a settlement then it's just stupid.

The ambushes are brutal as intended, but they shouldn't be getting applied to sieges like this. This stinks of a lack of testing.

Hello, hidden tunnels dug away from the settlement, quite possibly being dug DURING the siege, letting the Skaven move behind the besiegers.

[Trel1305]

Originally posted by Skazu:

Only thing i don't like about ambushes is that Allies can foil your ambushes. -.- If we have a common foe and i try to ambush him with a ally nearby its almost instantly foiled. Guess they spot my ambush and tell our common enemy this? xD
Really like ambushes in general. Feel its a vital part of the game, but this should have been looked into along time ago.

Yea, I like the ambush aswell. Needed more of it in the game and I dont mind Skaven doing it as ti makes up for their weak army roster.

[Trel1305]

Originally posted by Daliena:

Originally posted by Locklave:

I really think you should stop trying to explain a clearly broken game mechanic with fluffy lore logic. If they can do this then none of the normal siege mechanics should apply to them, since they all do arguing "scaven are great at ambushes" really doesn't explain anything.

The devs clearly cut and paste the Beastmen ambush stance without considering that the beastmen never had cities so this issue never came up.

"Clearly broken" by who's standards? Because it's very much not a universally held opinion. You may think it's broken, I do not and I'm not the only one as demonstrated here.

Originally posted by Locklave:

Unless sieging means walking your army in circles around a settlement then it's just stupid.

The ambushes are brutal as intended, but they shouldn't be getting applied to sieges like this. This stinks of a lack of testing.

Hello, hidden tunnels dug away from the settlement, quite possibly being dug DURING the siege, letting the Skaven move behind the besiegers.

If thats how they are doing it then Id rather (and it would make more sens) have where you are still on the siege map but skaven army splits up, half in the garrison and half behind you.

[Trel1305]

Originally posted by Butcher:

The worst part about ambush is the lack of ambush maps. You will fight on the same 3 maps again and again. Other than that it's a good mechanic(for skaven).

Right I'd say it was a bug if every other faction was doing it. But until it's confirmed I wouldn't jump on the bugged bandwagon.


I agree the maps get old. I have had at least 20 fights against skaven and maybe like 5 were ambush. Most than I have had in any other campaign in WH1.

And I like that as skaven weren't really this organized army with formations and front lines. They were opportunist who swarmed and surprised.

[Daliena]

Originally posted by TheNazuro:

Originally posted by Daliena:

"Clearly broken" by who's standards? Because it's very much not a universally held opinion. You may think it's broken, I do not and I'm not the only one as demonstrated here.






Hello, hidden tunnels dug away from the settlement, quite possibly being dug DURING the siege, letting the Skaven move behind the besiegers.

If thats how they are doing it then Id rather (and it would make more sens) have where you are still on the siege map but skaven army splits up, half in the garrison and half behind you.

That's just an assumption on my part, trying to explain how they do it. Though I would like to see that, there is the problem that it would make the ambushes even more brutal, as you'd be taking tower fire as well.