How are unit stats calculated?

[Zehm]

I was playing a battle a while ago where a unit of dark shards were trading fire with a unit of goblin archers. The darkshards got trashed. Looking at their stats that shouldn't be the case, since they have better stats all around. Goblins however have nearly double the model count. So I'm guessing that the stats shown in the unit panel are for an individual, rather than a unit. So does that mean that missile damage of 30 or whatever, is actually muliplied by the number of models in the unit? Can anyone confirm?

Also how is damage to a unit calculated? If a lord or hero with 100 damage hits a unit, does that just kill the one guy who has say 30 health, and the rest of the damage is wasted, or does the extra spill over to the cause damage to the unit as a whole? Are you wasting time having your heros fighting regualr troops. And what's the point of lords with AP damage if they hit hard enough to kill regardless?

[yoda gaming]

well goblins have nearly no armour, and darkshards only do armor piercing damage, thats why.

[Noun]

Originally posted by Djinn8:

I was playing a battle a while ago where a unit of dark shards were trading fire with a unit of goblin archers. The darkshards got trashed. Looking at their stats that shouldn't be the case, since they have better stats all around. Goblins however have nearly double the model count. So I'm guessing that the stats shown in the unit panel are for an individual, rather than a unit. So does that mean that missile damage of 30 or whatever, is actually muliplied by the number of models in the unit? Can anyone confirm?

Yeah, you also have to account for the accuracy of the units as well though, and the fact that larger unit sizes normally lose units much faster

Originally posted by Djinn8:

Also how is damage to a unit calculated? If a lord or hero with 100 damage hits a unit, does that just kill the one guy who has say 30 health, and the rest of the damage is wasted, or does the extra spill over to the cause damage to the unit as a whole? Are you wasting time having your heros fighting regualr troops. And what's the point of lords with AP damage if they hit hard enough to kill regardless?

It depends on if the lord has splash or not, if they have splash the damage is dealt to everything he hits, if he is a duelist lord or an archer lord then no, just the dude he hits. Thats why duelists and archer lords always should focus large units.

[Charlie Kelly, King of the Rats]

Originally posted by Djinn8:

I was playing a battle a while ago where a unit of dark shards were trading fire with a unit of goblin archers. The darkshards got trashed. Looking at their stats that shouldn't be the case, since they have better stats all around. Goblins however have nearly double the model count. So I'm guessing that the stats shown in the unit panel are for an individual, rather than a unit. So does that mean that missile damage of 30 or whatever, is actually muliplied by the number of models in the unit? Can anyone confirm?

Also how is damage to a unit calculated? If a lord or hero with 100 damage hits a unit, does that just kill the one guy who has say 30 health, and the rest of the damage is wasted, or does the extra spill over to the cause damage to the unit as a whole? Are you wasting time having your heros fighting regualr troops. And what's the point of lords with AP damage if they hit hard enough to kill regardless?

Well, the way this works- assuming the Darkshards don't have shields.

Goblins have nearly double the unit count, thus double the shots. Their hit-chance (it was a hidden stat in WH1) wasn't great, but it was better than arrow-boys. Most of their shots hit the unit by default. The goblins don't do armor piecing damage so they're best against lightly armored troops.

Darkshards without shields are outnumbered and fire relatively fast, but have a good hit chance. The problem is they have mediocre armor and do just armor-piercing damage. This makes them very, very good against units that often required hand-gunners (units that need straight los to attack). Thus Darkshards are an exceptional skimish unit because they weaken dangerous units like Chosen. The problem is that their damage is primarily armor-piercing, thus a majority of it is wasted on the goblins. With shields they will perform much better because of block chances.

[Zehm]

Well I would think that AP damage works just as well against unarmoured troops as non-AP damage, while the reverse shouldn't be the case.

I mean, it seems like it's based on the number of models. (Can't remember the exact stats, but...) If that goblin unit at full strength is firing 120 shots at for 20 damage each for 2400 damage per volley (modified by armour), while the dark shards are firing 90 shots for 30 damage each for 2700 damage per volley, (not modified by armour). However it would mean that every casualty that the shards take reduced their effectivness more than the goblins casualties, so the goblins should come out on top in a war of attrition.

[Noun]

Originally posted by Djinn8:

Well I would think that AP damage works just as well against unarmoured troops as non-AP damage, while the reverse shouldn't be the case.

I mean, it seems like it's based on the number of models. (Can't remember the exact stats, but...) If that goblin unit at full strength is firing 120 shots at for 20 damage each for 2400 damage per volley (modified by armour), while the dark shards are firing 90 shots for 30 damage each for 2700 damage per volley, (not modified by armour). However it would mean that every casualty that the shards take reduced their effectivness more than the goblins casualties, so the goblins should come out on top in a war of attrition.

AP is basically damage that ignores the armour roll entirely.

[Firaeveus Carron]

Originally posted by Djinn8:

Well I would think that AP damage works just as well against unarmoured troops as non-AP damage, while the reverse shouldn't be the case.

This.

Not sure why people think that armor piercing damage does less damage to low or unarmored units. Weapon, missile or magic damage that deals armor piercing damage will deal its damage regardless of a target's armor. It bypasses armor, that's it.

Armour works via random rolls, whereby damage from a successful attack is reduced by "0 - Insert Max Armour Value Here". Armor piercing damage completely bypasses armor rolls / saves, but normal damage will not. In Malekith's case (on foot), he has 90 armour. This means that every successful attack (if attacks do not miss) landed against Malekith will have its damage reduced by a random amount between 0 and 90. However, armour piercing damage will always deal its full damage.

Yes, a unit like the Darkshards are inefficient against Goblin Archers because of the gobbo's low armour, but the Darkshards will not suffer from any penalties to their damage vs. gobbos because of their armor piercing attacks. Gobbo archers are great against low armoured targets because of their numbers, meaning that their maximum possible damage per volley is equal to their missile damage multiplied by their model count (maxiumum damage per volley is rarely ever attained though due to numerous factors), and is – in other words – fairly high.

[Empiro]

Armor always reduces by at least half it's value (it's rolled between 1/2 armor to armor). Also, it's a percentage. So 40 armor at most reduces damage by 40%, not 40 points.

[Noun]

Originally posted by Empiro:

Armor always reduces by at least half it's value (it's rolled between 1/2 armor to armor). Also, it's a percentage. So 40 armor at most reduces damage by 40%, not 40 points.

You are actually right there im spreading miss information like an idiot.

[Charlie Kelly, King of the Rats]

Originally posted by Firaeveus Carron:

Originally posted by Djinn8:

Well I would think that AP damage works just as well against unarmoured troops as non-AP damage, while the reverse shouldn't be the case.

This.

Not sure why people think that armor piercing damage does less damage to low or unarmored units. Weapon, missile or magic damage that deals armor piercing damage will deal its damage regardless of a target's armor. It bypasses armor, that's it.

Mostly the argument about it is the inefficiency of it. That's what most folk talk about the damage being 'wasted'. Because armor-piercing is always a consideration in a unit's price, thus an armor-piercing skimisher is 'wasting' their damage on unarmored infantry where a cheaper, non-ap archer would get similar results for a lower price.