Ransom and Kill Captives - Are they too weak?

[Sneakimus]

Hey guys

I'm curious to hear what your opinions are on Ransom and Kill Captives battle options.

Ransom generally gives a miniscule, usually insignificant amount of money, and often comes with severe army penalties, and Kill Captives gives a measly 100XP for just a single turn to your units, which is the equivalent to what some Generals with the right traits can give you per turn without even needing to win a battle.

Versus the third Replenishment Option, which can give you at times a significant amount of your army back instantly, I find them to be extremely lacking.

95% of the time I pick the Replenishment Option, and only 5% of the time I ever pick the Kill Captive Option, if I'm in friendly territory and killed a minor army without significant losses.

The choices are really imbalanced imo, and I can't help but feel that they are really insignificant.

Ransom never gives enough money to counteract the penalties it comes with, and the XP award from Kill Captives is usually too insiginificant for me to ever seriously consider unless I'm in a luxury situation.

I can't imagine that it was ever the intention of the developers to favor a single option so much over the other 2, because what's the point of choice then?

I think the XP from Kill Captives should be boosted, maybe 5-10 turns instead of only 1, and that the money from Ransom must be really increased to make it worthwhile, or maybe make it 20%, like 50% less upkeep from army units in the victorious army for x amount of turns, or % boost to faction income( % instead of a fixed amount so that it can scale with low to high tier armies and economies, and doesn't became useless lategame).

[The Mighty Mulletman]

For which faction is this. Dark Elves? Skaven have different options and I pick them as the campaign situation requires. You don't get that much from the choices but it does add up over time and adds to the usual post battle loot.

[LuNi]

There are situations when using the kill and ransom options are beneficial. I usually kill if my army is reasonably healthy. Battlefield loot can be increased by so many things that selling off captives is useless.

[Raviollius]

After you finish a battle and see the enemy fleeing, select a single unit, kill a small number of routing enemies, then check how much exp each model was worth.

Afterwards, consider you gain free 100 EXP for each of your units and convert that into models killed.

[Woody]

Killing capatives adds up and can really make a difference as the game progresses.

Try doing it with one army frequently and not with another army. Then compare the ranks of the units after 20-30 turns. The 100 points makes also make a big difference for the armies you raise early in the game.

Same when you place a hero with the training ability in your army. It maxes out at 15 points a turn, but try seeing the difference between 2 armies with one having a hero adding that each turn and one that does not after the game progresses.

The experience option also guarantees all the units gain experience for the battle. Even the ones that may have gotten no kills.

The ransom is not suppossed to be a big windfall. You already get a nice amount of money from a battle. It is meant to be a little boost. The more men involved in the fight the more likely the ransom will be around 1K or a little more. If you are flush with cash just do not select it. So it is mainly something you will use early game to get that extra unit or start constructing that building you want a little earlier.

I certainly do not favor the option that boost replenishment. The only time I do that is when I am in regions very unfavorable to my replenishment. Either high corruption or lack of and regions with bad climate for my faction. Even then I would more likely select the experience over replenishment and just move my army to an area it can replenish faster if not too far away.

[Xhal]

Depends on factions and what you need at the time.

Initially with any faction you have almost no replenishment so that random option which reduces replenishment is crippling. Plus now it stacks for multiple turns so you might end up with 20+ turns. By the time you have good replenishment the money it gives doesn't matter any more so while I was almost always using ransom in WH1 I almost never use it in WH2.

The force labor or enslave or eat depends on race. It seems massively superior on High elves and dark elves I've seen up to 22% troop replenishment in 1 battle. Its a lot weaker on lizardmen and skaven so a lot less attractive frequently only giving 2-5%.

The training option depends. For example with Lizardmen I almost always pick that because : the 2 other options arent good for lizardmen and lizardmen get blessed spawnings which start at rank 0 and are not affected by techs or buildings so you need every bit of xp you can get.

[Gamefever]

Right,
Well "replenish" is useful when doing multiple attacks in a turn, its useful when your in area's that cause attrition, and its useful when you know that the army is going to be vulnerable during the opponents phase.

Replenishment can easily be mitigated by doing the following...
Lord and Hero skill points..........Hero's are of course easier to use for this and its great.

Getting more XP for soldiers is really tough for armies not using the Kill captives, the extra levels on troops are pretty strong.

Getting gold is always an issue during the campain so that little bit extra can be very helpful when you have the means to replenish your troops through a Hero, local buildings, and perhaps Lord Skills (I find upkeep reduction to be a better choice though).

[Cpt. Kid]

I guess it depends on how many you capture but $1000 for 100 captives sounds pretty good. I would do ransom more than kill captives for experience if it was $1000 for 100 captives not sure what it is in the game for 100.

[Sneakimus]

Originally posted by HRH Prince Nicholas Herrman:

I guess it depends on how many you capture but $1000 for 100 captives sounds pretty good. I would do ransom more than kill captives for experience if it was $1000 for 100 captives not sure what it is in the game for 100.

Ransom is also burderened by some pretty heavy penalties for many factions; not sure if hamstringing your important army for a few thousand coins is really worth it.

[ϺEƳEƦ]

I use it for immersion more then any thing. I tend not to kill or eat my own kind.

[The Mighty Mulletman]

Originally posted by ϺEƳEƦ:

I use it for immersion more then any thing. I tend not to kill or eat my own kind.

Skaven eat their own kind quite happily.

[ϺEƳEƦ]

Originally posted by The Mighty Knightly MulletMan:

Originally posted by ϺEƳEƦ:

I use it for immersion more then any thing. I tend not to kill or eat my own kind.

Skaven eat their own kind quite happily.

Lol indeed they do. But I'm either men or lizard so for me it's looked down on

[sleeper]

Originally posted by ϺEƳEƦ:

Originally posted by The Mighty Knightly MulletMan:

Skaven eat their own kind quite happily.

Lol indeed they do. But I'm either men or lizard so for me it's looked down on:laugh_lif:

Reallt do you think lizards do not eat each other?

[Free Luigi M.]

The options are fairly balanced. Of course replenishing your troops will be useful more often. That said, ransoming can be occasionally nice on higher difficulties. Especially if you are defending your own territories and your army will replenish completely by next turn anyway.
Killing captives is actually quite good. Use it every time replenishment doesn't matter or is too weak to make a difference, and you don't really need the money. It levels up armies very fast.

[Coldhands]

Doesn't the Kill XP bonus last like 3 turns?
I generally replenish with my main army, since they're fighting a lot and will get a bunch of XP anyway, and kill with everything else.
I've only played HE, and killing is probably best if you don't need the replacement troops right just now, because you'll get to those level 7 buffs from your lord skills faster.

[ϺEƳEƦ]

Originally posted by sleeper:

Originally posted by ϺEƳEƦ:

Lol indeed they do. But I'm either men or lizard so for me it's looked down on

Reallt do you think lizards do not eat each other?

I really don't think so. The lizards in warhammer seem too civilized.