The "merging" the 2 Warhammer games. How exactly does it work?

[Lifell]

I only bought this game recently. Been enjoying it. However, I'm a bit confused on how this system of theirs works considering merging

They're apparently planning on adding Warhammer I, Warhammer II AND Warhammer III together as a free DLC. In a sort of map way. A different game mode, basically. For people who own Warhammer II and Warhammer I now this DLC will be free. When Warhammer III releases they will probably add Warhammer I and Warhammer II to the newly released Warhammer III. Atleast I assume so?

From my perspective it feels really odd to buy 3 games to get a full gamemode. Why didn't they let Warhammer I peeps have it for free and let us pay 13 euro for only the new "gamemode" content? The people who bought Warhammer I paid 60 euro because they got the entire game and they had it early. They have had a lot of fun with that game.

I totally understand that it's free for those people. They get a little extra. But why are Warhammer II peeps left out exactly? I basically need to pay 60(+?) euro to get a free dlc (which is not entirely true).

This DLC isn't free because it's only the support for the 2 games "merging" that is free. The content is not. The content is in Warhammer I where you need to pay 60+ euro for.

I'm saying 60+ because I still don't know if I would need the DLC for that game. Because they're saying there are 35 different campaigns (35 different starting positions) on the new gamemode map thingy and I don't think these factions are in the base game of Warhammer I and Warhammer II

In my opinion there should be a way for Warhammer II and future Warhammer III owners to get this content even though they don't own the other games in this Total War: Warhammer series.

[Bulanskovich]

Well people who own game 1 but don't own game 2 won't get it either, it's not like game 2 owners are left out. The combined map is their first attempt at something of this size and an incentive to buy the games, a reward so to say for those who chose to buy the entire series.

[Kaaz]

if you only own 1, you dont get mortal empires, if you own 1 and 2 you get the freebie combine map for game 2 that adds the entire old world and most of the new world to the same map.

anything you own from game 1 will be accessible in the combined map for game 2.

when game 3 comes out if you own game 1 2 and 3 you get a freebie combine map for game 3 that has all the content you own from games 1 2 and 3.


the price for warhammer 1 is quite often down into the 15-20 quid mark so i dont think its a massive deal breaker to need both games personally.


just owning the two base games will give you 9 races, 17 factions/start positions to pick from

[Decomposed]

You don't have to buy the DLC for Wh1. Only the base game (it has been on sale many times for even as low as $10 on some sites).

Then you can play Mortal Empires.

You only need the DLC if you wish to play as the additional races (Chaos Warriors, Beastmen and Wood Elves).

[☁ Marble ☁]

Let me explain with this donut and hot dog...

[Kaaz]

Originally posted by Lifell:

Warhammer I peeps will get a Warhammer II "game" in their library that only allows them to play the combined gamemode super map thing and Warhammer II owners won't get Warhammer I in their libraries but will get complete support for the combo map + races. Just like Warhammer I peeps.

It's unfortunate that's probably not possible because of how Steam doesn't work.

each of the two games is its own stand alone game, each gets its own campaign and a base 4 factions (dlc for extra ones) its not like warhammer 2 only gives you access to the combined campaign, you get that combined map as a FLC ontop of the base campaign.

[Bulanskovich]

I understand your point but at the end of the day it's really just marketing if you can call it that, and incentive to buy all the games for it. The combined map being called free is more than likely worded as such because you don't technically pay for it, at least not extra, you get it if you have all games. The wording might not be the best but that's the gist of it.

It's something like those ads with "buy 2 get one free", you get my point. It was as I said one of the selling points since the series started.

[Phil]

Your point made sense until you got to the "I see Warhammer I as lesser than Warhammer II". They're two different games in different parts of the world. That's like saying Medieval II is a lesser version of Empire. The factions aren't the same, the map isn't the same. You aren't getting a better version of warhammer I with warhammer 2, you are getting a seperate game.

[Kaaz]

you dont need all the dlc to play it, only the base game of each. so you'd just need to grab warhammer 1 on an offer and you get access to the 4 base races (+1 flc) from game one and the combined map

and i pointed that out since you said

Originally posted by Lifell:

Warhammer I peeps will get a Warhammer II "game" in their library that only allows them to play the combined gamemode super map thing

[Welsh Dragon]

OP:

This project (the Warhammer Trilogy) is so hugely complex, expensive and time consuming to make, that it's taking 3 full size games plus DLC to do it, and taken over 5 years of development just to reach this point.

Okay, if you're buying Warhammer 1 and 2 solely to play Mortal Empires, then yes you're looking at it costing $120 for one campaign, but in return you're receiving a campaign game on a scale that hasn't really been tried before (in terms of size, uniqueness of races, number of races.) And you're also missing out on the unique experiences and challenges offered by the Old World and Vortex Campaigns if you don't play them, but that's your choice.

The reason Mortal Empires is only available to people who own Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2, is because they're the ones who have paid for all the work needed to make the content used by Mortal Empires. The sort of DLC you suggest just wouldn't cover those costs without it costing as much as the full game, because you essentially need two full games worth of content to have Mortal Empires in the first place.

So while I can understand where you are coming from OP, I just don't think it's a workable idea. Warhammer Trilogy will be expensive to buy, yes, especially if you want it all. But it's also very expensive to make, so I think the price is justified. I very much doubt we'll see a DLC of the sort you suggest, and to be honest I don't really think there should be one.

If you want to get Warhammer 1 content cheaper, your best bet is to shop around and keep an eye out for sales on Steam, Humble Bundle and other legitimate sites.

Hope that helps.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[Kaaz]

Originally posted by Lifell:

As for this "you dont need all the dlc to play it, only the base game of each". I understand that. But if Warhammer III adds an awesome race that I wanna play in my merged map but I don't own Warhammer III because I choose to not buy it. And I do own Warhammer I and Warhammer II at that point. That would mean I need to buy Warhammer III plus the DLC just to be able to play that single race in the new merged map gamemode.

that's how new content works... you gotta buy to get new stuff. you also wouldnt be able to play the merged map that contained any of the warhammer 3 stuff without the base game

[Panfilo]

There are going to be enough people in your situation that I'm sure they will offer promotions in the future. If Mortal Empires is popular (which I anticipate it will be) then what will likely happen is you will see various promotions, either for buying both games together or if you already own one but want the other to get Mortal Empires, particularly if you bought WH2 initially.

I could totally see them doing something like "For X weeks anyone that currently owns Warhammer 2 can buy Warhammer 1 at 66% off". Similarly, they could do DLC sale bundles where they combine a bunch of the DLCs together and give you a reasonable discount if you buy them in bulk.

Then when Warhammer 3 comes out they could extend this again to encourage people to buy and use all the content.

Keep in mind they have given players some incentives, a significant number of DLCs are completely free. Chaos was free if you pre ordered the first game, and Norsca was free if you pre ordered the second.

[Ysthrall]

[quote=Lifell

I'm saying 60+ because I still don't know if I would need the DLC for that game. Because they're saying there are 35 different campaigns (35 different starting positions) on the new gamemode map thingy and I don't think these factions are in the base game of Warhammer I and Warhammer II

[/quote]

While most other points have been addressed, those 35 campaigns. Each LL gets a different starting position. So, with no paid DLC....
2 Empire, 3 Dwarf, 2 Greenskin, 2 Vampire counts. 1 Bloody Hands, 2 Von Carstein, 3 Brettonians.
2 High Elf, 2 Dark Elf, 2 Skaven and 2 Lizardmen.

That's 23.

Paid DLC give 1 Clan Angrund, 1 Crooked Moon, 1 more each to VC and Empire, 3 Chaos Warriors, 2 Wood Elves, 3 Beastmen and 2 Norscan.

That's another 13, total of 36 (I think I've made a mistake somewhere, and that's not even starting on Tomb Kings and other possible FLC/DLC for TW:W2)

So yes, it looks like you'll have a mere (!) 23 different campaigns with no DLC purchases. No other FLC withstanding....

[Welsh Dragon]

Originally posted by Lifell:

Originally posted by Welsh Dragon:

OP:

This project (the Warhammer Trilogy) is so hugely complex, expensive and time consuming to make, that it's taking 3 full size games plus DLC to do it, and taken over 5 years of development just to reach this point.

Okay, if you're buying Warhammer 1 and 2 solely to play Mortal Empires, then yes you're looking at it costing $120 for one campaign, but in return you're receiving a campaign game on a scale that hasn't really been tried before (in terms of size, uniqueness of races, number of races.) And you're also missing out on the unique experiences and challenges offered by the Old World and Vortex Campaigns if you don't play them, but that's your choice.

The reason Mortal Empires is only available to people who own Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2, is because they're the ones who have paid for all the work needed to make the content used by Mortal Empires. The sort of DLC you suggest just wouldn't cover those costs without it costing as much as the full game, because you essentially need two full games worth of content to have Mortal Empires in the first place.

So while I can understand where you are coming from OP, I just don't think it's a workable idea. Warhammer Trilogy will be expensive to buy, yes, especially if you want it all. But it's also very expensive to make, so I think the price is justified. I very much doubt we'll see a DLC of the sort you suggest, and to be honest I don't really think there should be one.

If you want to get Warhammer 1 content cheaper, your best bet is to shop around and keep an eye out for sales on Steam, Humble Bundle and other legitimate sites.

Hope that helps.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

So, basically people are missing out. And there are tons of people who don't want to buy Warhammer II because they got Warhammer I already. Or they got Warhammer II and they don't wanna buy Warhammer I and Warhammer III.

And it's because it's so huge that I disagree with this. It's basically a seperate game because it adds and merges so much from the 3 games. It's huge. That the 3 seperate games are so hard to get is also because it's seperate. 3 "different" (slightly different) engines with lots of different campaigns that you don't see in this merged gamemode.

If you make such a huge gamemode that can be seen as a seperate game (I don't hink I'm the only one who sees it like this) and it's been labeled as "loyal fans" content. I think there is a problem to be honest =/...

Nobody is missing out. They're just recieving what they've actually paid for, and not receiving what they haven't.

I also don't see it as "loyal fans" content. Loyalty has nothing to do with it. I see it as "paying for the work that's needed to give you the content you want." You get Mortal Empires if you've paid for the work to make it and the foundations it's built upon, which means buying Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2.

Essentially, think of it like Lego sets. (Other construction toys are available. )

Warhammer 1 has all the bricks needed to make the "Warhammer 1: The Old World" set.

Warhammer 2 has all the bricks needed to make the "Warhammer 2: The Vortex" set.

Mortal Empires is a separate set of "instructions" that you get for having both sets. But it doesn't do you any good unless you have both, because you need the "bricks" from Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2 to make the "Mortal Empires" set.

Warhammer 3 will have all the bricks needed to make the "Warhammer 3: Chaos Strikes Back" set (or whatever it's called.) And the Very Big Campaign will need the "bricks" from Warhammer 1, Warhammer 2 and Warhammer 3 to make it.

If they offered you "Mortal Empires" as a separate game it would still cost you $120, because you can't build Mortal Empires without all the work that went into Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2. The same will be true of Warhammer 3 and Very Big Campaign.

It's why I don't think your idea of a separate "Mortal Empires" paid DLC, or a discount DLC which only adds the bits you want is workable. Because "Mortal Empires" needs practically everything from Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2 to work. It's not just about adding the playable Races, but all the other stuff as well.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

EDIT:

These two links may also help:

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/mortal-empires

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/mortal-empires-with-ian-roxburgh

[Welsh Dragon]

Originally posted by Lifell:

Originally posted by Welsh Dragon:

Nobody is missing out. They're just recieving what they've actually paid for, and not receiving what they haven't.

I also don't see it as "loyal fans" content. Loyalty has nothing to do with it. I see it as "paying for the work that's needed to give you the content you want." You get Mortal Empires if you've paid for the work to make it and the foundations it's built upon, which means buying Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2.

Essentially, think of it like Lego sets. (Other construction toys are available. )

Warhammer 1 has all the bricks needed to make the "Warhammer 1: The Old World" set.

Warhammer 2 has all the bricks needed to make the "Warhammer 2: The Vortex" set.

Mortal Empires is a separate set of "instructions" that you get for having both sets. But it doesn't do you any good unless you have both, because you need the "bricks" from Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2 to make the "Mortal Empires" set.

Warhammer 3 will have all the bricks needed to make the "Warhammer 3: Chaos Strikes Back" set (or whatever it's called.) And the Very Big Campaign will need the "bricks" from Warhammer 1, Warhammer 2 and Warhammer 3 to make it.

If they offered you "Mortal Empires" as a separate game it would still cost you $120, because you can't build Mortal Empires without all the work that went into Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2. The same will be true of Warhammer 3 and Very Big Campaign.

It's why I don't think your idea of a separate "Mortal Empires" paid DLC, or a discount DLC which only adds the bits you want is workable. Because "Mortal Empires" needs practically everything from Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2 to work. It's not just about adding the playable Races, but all the other stuff as well.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

Ah yeah. Fair enough xD. BUT that would mean about 1/3 of the lego bricks aren't used for that seperate game/gamemode because they overlap. I do get your point yeah. One warhammer game needs the map, races. So the races are reused and the map(s) are reused.

The price for a single game however isn't just for those things. A lot of things in Warhammer I are in Warhammer II as well. When you pay for a game you pay for the whole package. Including the fact that the company may had to pay for middleware and the like. And the fact that the Mortal Empires campaign doesn't have a ton of mechanics that Warhammer I and/or Warhammer II do have. The whole vortex thing is gone and is not present in the Mortal Empires thing. It's logical of course because that mechanic wouldn't work well in such a huge world with so many different factions. The list of things that overlap or are different in every game is of course a lot larger.

At the end of the day I see Warhammer I, Warhammer II, Warhammer III (probably) and the Mortal Empires merged mapmode thing as 4 different experiences. The first 3 you can simply buy but for the fourth you suddenly need to buy the other 3 experiences which you may not even care for.

Also, I would love a 100-120 euro "Total War: Warhammer Mortal Empires" standalone game. Because that would still be cheaper. And if it's a standalone it won't cost the exact same as Warhammer I, Warhammer II and Warhammer III combined. Because things do overlap and it's standalone.

Fair enough.

But to avoid confusion.

Mortal Empires is the Combined Campaign for 1 and 2.

Very Big Campaign* is the Combined Campaign for 1, 2, and 3.

*Working Title.

So by the end of the Trilogy there will be 5 campaigns to choose from. (See the Blog Posts I linked for further details.)

And in my view the hypothetical savings made from them being able to reuse some things from Warhammer 1 in Warhammer 2, and from both in Mortal Empires, is probably wiped out by the costs of the work involved in making Mortal Empires itself.

It needs quite a bit of additional work to make, like making the new campaign map (it's not just a simple matter of sticking them together, they're basically making a new campaign map,) new work on all the Races, new objectives for them, pathing, AI behaviour, making sure the Warhammer 1 and Warhammer 2 races play nice together and don't glitch out, etc and of course testing it all.

Essentially, I think what stops a separate "Total War: Warhammer Mortal Empires" from being an option, is you'd essentially be paying for the "house," without having paid for the foundations. But you can't have the house without the foundations, because it folds like a house of cards if you take out ones from the bottom.... sorry, I'm mixing metaphors now.

Anyway, hope you got the idea. Have a good evening.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

EDIT to your EDIT:

Originally posted by Lifell:

If that kind of standalone game would be there I would forget about the 3 other Total War: Warhammer games and go buy the "Mortal Empires" edition right away.

And that is exactly why it won't happen, or at least not for a very long time. There's no real upside for CA/SEGA/GW to counteract that very real downside for them. It would essentially be undercutting themselves.

[Ajax Epic]

Originally posted by Ysthrall:

Each LL gets a different starting position

Wrong. At launch atleast. Wait a day or two and a mod will do it. Wait a month or two and CA will eventually do it officially.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/mortal-empires-with-ian-roxburgh
"Will any of the Old World Legendary Lords get new start positions?

Not yet but watch this space. Our whole focus right now is getting Mortal Empires in great starting form, which is a massive job as I’m sure you can appreciate. Designing and playtesting new LL startposes is on our wishlist but first things first, we want the campaign in tip-top starting shape and fun from every angle before we start ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ around with it. We have a pretty good track record of tweaking and evolving Warhammer, and we’ll carry on doing that."