White lions

[Scott]

is it just me or do the white lions feel a little underwhelming for being the personal body guards of the pheonix king aswel as supposed to be these wilder elves who gain their cloaks by killing a white lion with his bare hands? surely since they weild two handed axes that they would out preform sword masters on the charge but they only have 2 more charge and 1 extra AP damage which hardly makes them feel like these elite wilder elves, maybe add frenzy or beef up their charge or AP damage as right now there is no reason to take them over swordmasters in campaign other then becuase they look cool.

[Sai Kyouji]

White Lions would beat Swordmasters of same rank in a forest while both getting the same amount of arrows shot at them.

[Macros]

Not frenzy! Never frenzy!

But yeah, right now they're... mediocre. I think their main problem is that they don't really have a dedicated role. Sure, they're anti-armour, but since they're neither anti-infantry or anti-large, there's no kind of enemy against which they perform really well. So... yeah, they look cool, and I have fond memories of them in my tabletop games, but here, they're more of a gimmick than an integral part of the army, I think.

[Haldir Sith'ari]

Same here I was let down when I saw how bad they are. Ive tried so hard to make them work but its just more better to bring swordmaster over them. "I think their main problem is that they don't really have a dedicated role" I agree this is the main problem.

[Scott]

even the white lion lord dosnt realy buff the lions that much over any other lord, would like to see their stats resemble their more savage but still elven manner as the elves of chrace are both shunned and feared by other elves due to their attitude towards the elven way of life, still high elves but with a lower sense of pompousness and alot more ferosity. also white lion chariots would be fun in a lord pack at some point. and im pretty sure axes are supposed but be more effective at dealing with plate then great swords but could be wrong.

[Free Luigi M.]

Phoenix guards are the personal guard of the Phoenix King, Not white lions.

Also swordmasters are way more skilled and fearsome than white lions in the lore.

In the game, I think they are a solid melee infantry unit.

[Macros]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Phoenix guards are the personal guard of the Phoenix King, Not white lions.

Not quite true. White Lions are the personal bodyguards of the Phoenix King, with him sometimes dispatching them to escort other nobles. The Phoenix Guard only answer to the Phoenix King, but acts as a more independant force, basically following the will of Asuryan - more often than not, they'll show up unannounced - when they bother showing up at all. They're basically warrior-monks.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Phoenix guards are the personal guard of the Phoenix King, Not white lions.

Also swordmasters are way more skilled and fearsome than white lions in the lore.

In the game, I think they are a solid melee infantry unit.

http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/White_Lions

[Sai Kyouji]

Originally posted by Macros:

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Phoenix guards are the personal guard of the Phoenix King, Not white lions.

Not quite true. White Lions are the personal bodyguards of the Phoenix King, with him sometimes dispatching them to escort other nobles. The Phoenix Guard only answer to the Phoenix King, but acts as a more independant force, basically following the will of Asuryan - more often than not, they'll show up unannounced - when they bother showing up at all. They're basically warrior-monks.

Yeah, Phoenix Guards are personal bodyguard to the Shrine of Asuryan, not the Phoenix King.

But look at it like this, are Secret Services the most elite soldiers USA have?

[Sultschiem]

They said that they downgraded White Lions from the same tier as Swordmasters to one tier below for balance reasons, so you could have a proper Melee fighter sooner.

However, White Lions are still fun as hell, especially if you use Alistar with them.

Nice thing about them, through their missile resistance they are actually better against skirmish builds than swordmasters, because those only have bronce shields instead, which only work from the front.

[Beez]

I edited them to have 30 charge bonus, and a +4 to melee attack. They fill a niche a bit better then, bit like Nodachi samuari from Shogun 2, cos right now they're just a bit average.

[Free Luigi M.]

Originally posted by Johnny the Godling:

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Phoenix guards are the personal guard of the Phoenix King, Not white lions.

Also swordmasters are way more skilled and fearsome than white lions in the lore.

In the game, I think they are a solid melee infantry unit.

http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/White_Lions

Nothing in that link leads me to believe they should be more powerful than they currently are in this game. As I said, swordmasters are on another level compared to them.
So, they are balanced?

[Scott]

at least give them a bonus vs large due the woodsmans axe being used to great effect against bears, lions and the biggest creatures the new world has to offer.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Originally posted by Johnny the Godling:

http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/White_Lions

Nothing in that link leads me to believe they should be more powerful than they currently are in this game. As I said, swordmasters are on another level compared to them.
So, they are balanced?

the link was to confirm their status as the personal body guard to the pheonix king.

[Scott]

just to clarify all i would liek for the lions are a slighly higher CB, more AP to reflect their heavy weapons and a bonus vs large due to their ritual or hunting white lions to prove their worth, i dont think they sound be better then a unit that has mater in its name but i would like the lions to have a role that makes them worth taking in any army instead of just being a worse swordmaster.

[Aenarion]

The best use for them is if you have Alister (sp?) and build the special and resource buildings in Chrace. With the right skill picks you'll be churning out lvl 7-9 white lions with 70% upkeep discount. You could take 8 of them with some seaguard, archers, bolt throwers and a couple of cav/monsters and you have a pretty cheap but effective stack.

Only problem is that by the time you can do this you're usually not far off -100% upkeep dragon stacks. Mostly it is useful if you confed with Chrace very early.