Empire Vs Dark elves

[DvChappelle]

So I just started a mortal empire campaign with my buddy i dont have much exp with empire but one thing i know is dark elves are hell to beat any advice on how the empire can win against them?

[DvChappelle]

or any specfic powerful builds

[Magna Kaizer]

Havent played it myself but my money would be on arty since DE arty is pretty rubbish that and demigryph knights.

[DvChappelle]

hmm i can see that working just need strong cav protection i hate fighting malakith he might give the empire a run for money

[Reuvin]

Originally posted by DvChappelle:

[...] i hate fighting malakith he might give the empire a run for money

Not when the Empire can field 20 full stacks and still get 5k gold income a turn he can't.

Edit: Also, steam tanks. Can't get murderous prowess if you can't kill the enemy.

[Don Cool]

Empire isn´t in a great spot when it comes to the hierarchy of power. Dark Elves, Lizzards, High Elves and even Wood Elves have far better basic options.

Basically the devs should have taken a second look at the abilities of regular Empire lords who lack the ability to support their troops as much as some of the other factions. Their talents are rather lacklustre.

You can manage a good campaign with the Empire, it just takes more work and you need to manage your cavalry well but since DE has basic infantry which also is anti cavalry it makes things difficult. I have always avoided HE and DE as the empire, let them fight one another ... there are undead, orcs and men to fight.

[Kaia]

Depends on the build the Dark Elves choose to go with. But some units are going to be less effective than normal and so probably not worth their cost.

High armor infantry are a waste of time if they don't also have shields. Darkshards w/shields (optimal) or Shades (sub-par but absurdly popular) will shred them. Greatswords should stay at home. They will die in droves to Darkelf missile fire.

Halberdiers are a good choice for line infantry. Their AP damage is really crucial as only a couple of Dark Elf infantry units have low armor (Dreadspears, Bleakswords and Witch Elves) and Corsair builds are quite popular in multiplayer because they sport such excellent armor. They'll carve through state troops who lack the AP to hurt them. Yes, no shield. But we're not paying for high armor either. If they die, they die. At least they can fight back. And they'll be well positioned against hydras, dragons and cold ones.

Hellstorms. Lots of hellstorms. These do enough damage that their low AP doesn't matter that much, and spread it around enough to obliterate the largely infantry dependent Dark Elves. The more of these you bring, the more effective they are as they also flatten things long enough to be reloading.

Reiksguard. Darkshards are lousy combatant and shades are only slightly better. Shutting them down is valuable and Reiksguard do the job perfectly well. And actually do it faster as they score a great many more hits in the same time by virtue of being a larger unit. Demigryphs is money better spent elsewhere, especially given the propensity of DE missile units to shoot them down on the way in. You should be wary of Cold One Riders (especially the T3 version with lances) but they're not regarded as very good cavalry at being cavalry, so few Dark Elf players take them. If they do then a unit of outriders can help but that's an expensive gamble so decide how much you'll depend on your cav early. If they're not critical to the battle plan, spending money to protect them isn't worth it.

Cannons can be useful too, especially against Dark Elf monsters like hydras and dragons who're big, well armored targets. Put them on the wings so that if you target infantry you'll get some nice blow-throughs.

Crossbows are another gamble. Against shades they can rack up a lot of kills for their costs, as shades have garbage tier armor and no shields. Against Darkshards, you will be slaughtered as they have shields and you do not. Handgunners are a better choice since you'll be AP, and can blow chunks out of their better tier units like Corsairs, Executioners and Blackguard. Just don't get into a range duel. Have other units dealing with the DE ranged contingent.

[Macros]

Originally posted by Reuvin:

Can't get murderous prowess if you can't kill the enemy.

Weeell, technically, they can also get it by dying a lot. Which is fine, really.

[Kaia]

Steam Tanks are just rolling scrap metal to Dark Elves. Massed AP archery is brutally effective against them.

[Zane87]

Originally posted by Kaia:

Steam Tanks are just rolling scrap metal to Dark Elves. Massed AP archery is brutally effective against them.

Aye.
They look fine and stuff but wait till the first volley of those bolts devastated your shiny armor.

Not useful against DE.

Even though highly unpopular, you might throw in one Luminarch against their monsters. Homing bolt with high power.

Or Handgunners, their fast projectiles make dodging rather hard.

[Kaia]

Basically you'll run into one of two dark elf armies.

The first is big on Corsairs and had some shades lurking about. The real problem here is cost effective well armored infantry that're just flat out better than anything you can field until you get greatswords. In these situations, greatswords would be ideal. Corsairs don't have AP, their armor is negated and the two or three shades aren't numerous enough to kill all your elite infantry before they're done working.

The second is heavy on darkshards. This army might have corsairs, or even blackguard. But more likely to be dreadspears since they're cheaper and just a buffer zone for the archers who do the real killing. Blackguard might be assigned flank duty but again spears might be put here to save money or cold ones, which are good anti-cav and more mobile. This army minces greatswords, their AP weapons don't help because almost nobody has good armor and their armor doesn't help because DE archery is all AP.

So if you can't tell what you're fighting ahead of time, you need a build that can deal with either.

Hellstorms give you the ability to put a lot of hurt on a lot of things (individual druchii HP is lousy, they depend on their high stats and armor to protect them) very quickly. You can really whittle down a darkelf army with these.

Kill their killers. If they've gont heavy on the melee element then obviously target that. If they've gone with the massed darkshards, pour on the rockets. Every darkshard who dies is less bolts coming at you when they enter range.

Then you need a powerful cavalry core. Reiksguard do very well for their cost. Use them to smash the remaining darkshards, run down shades (cycle charging will eliminate even the greatsword variants. People on their backs can't fight.) or cause chaos in the backs of the Corsairs. The charge bonus is enough extra damage to make them effective without being explicitly AP. If you desperately need that reassurance then Demigryph Lances exist and do well, but you get far fewer of them and if they went with the darkshard heavy force, are dead chickens. Reiksguard have the numbers to send darkshard batteries flying.

Line holders depends. But I would cleave toward halberds as a middle of the road choice. Their high defense helps them hold the line. Their AP means they can actually hurt corsairs. Their lack of shields is an issue but once the battle lines join you need to be able to kill, not just survive. If you find the cost too unsustainable, then swordsmen will stand up to massed missile fire much better. But count on them being ignored by it anyway in favor of more threatening targets.

Handgunners are a gamble. Against dreadspear/darkshard spam they're wasted points. They fire slowly, their AP is doing nothing productive and everyone has shields. Against corsair spam, they'll be worth their weight (just watch out for dark riders/shades focusing them down). For that reason I would avoid them and take their value in more hellstorms or reiksguard.

[DvChappelle]

What we need to remember that this is a mortal empire campaign where elite armies will be used by the time my buddy and I engage each other prob around turn 160 we usually wait after chaos now blow for blow i know dark elves will top the empire on unit stats I like the halberd as a wall but because of empires low cost upkeep I could use a greatsword wall they have higher armor and better leadership long enough to hold the enemy to allow my flanks to engage sense I do believe empire has an advantage on the flanks now the elephant in the room is malakith yes he will obviously only be controlling one army but if he ends up as the attacking force hitting my cities he will be a pain. My idea and not a very proud one is to use a goon squad for him Karl Fran's and two empire knights all on flying mounts yes the arrows will be an issue but if I can hold them back from the fight and use them late game after I deal with his archers I can deal with him believe and yes I'm not a fan on goon squads either lol

[DvChappelle]

Also relying on artillery is big because I feel I will need to play on the defense vs dark elves

[Aenarion]

Greatswords, demis with halberds, and artillery. Anything less and you can't really expect to beat dark elves given the cost of their troops.