Making an Empire Gunpower Army OP?

[SaucinYaBish]

Would making a 1 LL/ 1 Hero with 12 Gunpowder Rifles/2 Cannons, 4 Swordsmen units, be too OP against the AI on Legendary? I've never tried a revolutionary type army against any Warhammer armies so I'm not sure if it'll be too easy lol. Seems like it'd be cool.

[SaucinYaBish]

Originally posted by Lobsterkuln:

4 infantry units to hold back their entire army?

Ya, I'm thinking of like the British Empire during the 1600's-1700's type style.

[Don Cool]

Depends on how much cavalry the enemy uses I guess and how proficient they are at using said cavalry.

[Purin]

This is very hard to pull off in practice as gunners in this game are not that strong. The lack if arc shots and the long reloads make them very very vulnerable. Even the AI won't be focusing your 4 swords men. That amount of guns will require so kuch mico that it simply is not worth. Even a few spare units will make you formation chaotic. Not to mention units will be blocked most of the time.

[Sloul Des Tucs]

Doesn't work.

Bow is superior to guns both in range and damage output (because they fire faster).
Where guns become more interesting is against armored troops, but they will never tear apart a unit.
Their range is a 145 and their recharge rate is 11 seconds.
If you manage to fire 3 volley on any given unit before impact: that's good.
I would say, guns are more proficient against large and slow units.
Even the armor piercing damage of guns is not that good. Total damage is 18, And armor piercing must be around 10.

The real guns of TW:Warhammer 1/2, imo are Hellblaster and Organ Guns.
And when you go this district, the dwarves are completely superior to Empire.
Organ Guns cost 1000 (sp/mp) and their upkeep is 275
Where Empire Hellblaster cost 1300 (which is no-no for mp comparred to dwarves) and upkeep is 325. Ultimately making it 30% more expensive.

Apart from their price, the noticeable difference between Organ Guns and Hellblaster is that Organs perform better against flying units.

On top of it Dwarves will have access to engineers that can increase range, damage and ammuniations.
While Empire can resort to Wizards to cast spells such as Net of Amyntok or buffing artillery with flaming damage.
In the en Empire artillery is just much more costly than Dwarves artillery.


I would also like to stess that Dwarven Cannons are doing an excellent job at doing damage, to a point where it gets in competition with Organ Guns.
Basically, under 300 meters, Organ Guns become effective and will deal much more damage than Cannons.
But because Cannons can start firing at 440 range, they already soften most targets (and their projectiles can hit multiple targets), thus, even if dealing less damage than Organ guns, they manage to do almost the same damage while costing only 800 gold and requiring a lot less building upgrades to be built.

[Sloul Des Tucs]

You can also put troops in front of Organ guns and they will manage to fire, but you need to put them some metters away, let say 8 meters away.
I suspect this is possible because of the short size of dwarves.

[LuNi]

Army with some halbs & greatswords at the front, light wizard with fully upgraded net and some handgunners and arty should work. Add a few steam tanks with jade wizard(s) as support. Add some heavy cav and your golden.

[SaucinYaBish]

Originally posted by LuNi:

Army with some halbs & greatswords at the front, light wizard with fully upgraded net and some handgunners and arty should work. Add a few steam tanks with jade wizard(s) as support. Add some heavy cav and your golden.

Originally posted by Sloul:

Doesn't work.

Bow is superior to guns both in range and damage output (because they fire faster).
Where guns become more interesting is against armored troops, but they will never tear apart a unit.
Their range is a 145 and their recharge rate is 11 seconds.
If you manage to fire 3 volley on any given unit before impact: that's good.
I would say, guns are more proficient against large and slow units.
Even the armor piercing damage of guns is not that good. Total damage is 18, And armor piercing must be around 10.

The real guns of TW:Warhammer 1/2, imo are Hellblaster and Organ Guns.
And when you go this district, the dwarves are completely superior to Empire.
Organ Guns cost 1000 (sp/mp) and their upkeep is 275
Where Empire Hellblaster cost 1300 (which is no-no for mp comparred to dwarves) and upkeep is 325. Ultimately making it 30% more expensive.

Apart from their price, the noticeable difference between Organ Guns and Hellblaster is that Organs perform better against flying units.

On top of it Dwarves will have access to engineers that can increase range, damage and ammuniations.
While Empire can resort to Wizards to cast spells such as Net of Amyntok or buffing artillery with flaming damage.
In the en Empire artillery is just much more costly than Dwarves artillery.


I would also like to stess that Dwarven Cannons are doing an excellent job at doing damage, to a point where it gets in competition with Organ Guns.
Basically, under 300 meters, Organ Guns become effective and will deal much more damage than Cannons.
But because Cannons can start firing at 440 range, they already soften most targets (and their projectiles can hit multiple targets), thus, even if dealing less damage than Organ guns, they manage to do almost the same damage while costing only 800 gold and requiring a lot less building upgrades to be built.

Ok, thanks guys for the replies. I had just recently watched The Revenant and I just thought their rifles firing was pretty cool. I completed a Dwarf campaign about a year ago on Very Hard and like you said Sloul, the organ guns were crazy powerful. I was curious if this could work with a human type army but it seems that the reload/vulnerablity of the empire units is too much of a problem. Thanks again guys.

[Wyvern]

before the unit limits hit, all handguns with a small handful of frontline was completely viable vs dwarves in MP, but also in campaign. Vs other factions, I wouldnt recommend it, though going heavy shooting is usually the right idea with empire since their infantry is pretty weak.

[Iriath Zhul]

Handgunners are extremely good against Chaos because of the tight unit formations and reliance on high armor (which guns punish), and they're devastating against Norsca for similar reasons. But against most other factions, they're going to charge you before you can do respectable damage (Vampires, Skaven), outrange you (all the Elves), or bravely crash through your guns and run you over (Beastmen, Bretonnia).