Lore: Most Powerful Magic User?

[jinjayx]

I gathered from Wikis that Mazdamundi is the most powerful magic user.
That made me curious how does the magic users rank?

0. Kroak
1. Nagash
2. Mazdamundi
3. Typical Slann Mage Priest
4. Caledor
5. Teclis

6. Morathi
7. Malekith
8. Mannfred Von Carstein
9. Balthasar Gelt
10. Lore Master Of Hoeth

11. Typical Spellcaster

How wrong am I?
Probably very wrong.

That is where your help is needed.

Thank you.

[Shandor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

Strongest magic user (in both WFB and AoS based on feats so far) is lord Kroak, teacher and master of Mazdamundi (and considering that Nagash became a god in AoS, yet by feats Kroak still easily beats him, that shows something). After skaven blew up the moon, Kroak came back to life and saved the world for a while, from falling debris of the moon. He came back to life by willing himself back to life, not because he was ressurected or summoned, he just have the total control over his mind and body.

Anyway, top ten strongest Magic Users based only on WFB):

1) Kroak (no comments here, he was so strong, that he is the only one who actually saved parts of his race during End of Time, everyone else had to be ressurected in AoS+he turned regular lizardmen into "daemons of order", so they cool too).
2) Nagash (during End of Times, with all power-ups)
3) Mazdamundi
4) Be'Lakor (in his prime)
5) Balthasar Gelt (during End of Times)
6) Nagash (regular)
7) Teclis
8) Settra (the second (first one is Abhorash, the second strongest swordsmen of WFB) most badass WFB character)
9) Malekith
10) Balthasar Gelt (regular).

Settra is not even a Mage?

[gachi is manly]

Oh, and don't forget Kairos Fateweaver either. The strongest wizard among all Lords of Change (which are already some of the strongest wizards in existence.)

He knows every single spell and can predict every action. He should be right up there with Teclis and Mazda.

Says right on his page in 7th editon Daemon army book: "When it comes to magic, Kairos is unstoppable."

He's also probably the second strongest mage in the tabletop game right behind Teclis. He's a lot more durable, too.

[Rookie0879]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shandor:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

Strongest magic user (in both WFB and AoS based on feats so far) is lord Kroak, teacher and master of Mazdamundi (and considering that Nagash became a god in AoS, yet by feats Kroak still easily beats him, that shows something). After skaven blew up the moon, Kroak came back to life and saved the world for a while, from falling debris of the moon. He came back to life by willing himself back to life, not because he was ressurected or summoned, he just have the total control over his mind and body.

Anyway, top ten strongest Magic Users based only on WFB):

1) Kroak (no comments here, he was so strong, that he is the only one who actually saved parts of his race during End of Time, everyone else had to be ressurected in AoS+he turned regular lizardmen into "daemons of order", so they cool too).
2) Nagash (during End of Times, with all power-ups)
3) Mazdamundi
4) Be'Lakor (in his prime)
5) Balthasar Gelt (during End of Times)
6) Nagash (regular)
7) Teclis
8) Settra (the second (first one is Abhorash, the second strongest swordsmen of WFB) most badass WFB character)
9) Malekith
10) Balthasar Gelt (regular).

Settra is not even a Mage?

He prefers to hit things with weapons, but he do knows magic. And since he is the one who most often a threat to Nagash, that puts him on list of most dangerous peoples in WFB world.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lyle Ugleman:

Oh, and don't forget Kairos Fateweaver either. The strongest wizard among all Lords of Change (which are already some of the strongest wizards in existence.)

Kairos is not that good in combat, his powers are in divination. Martak beat him up in magic duel, when near dead shard of Ulric was fused with Martak and after Martak killed several chaos champions. + Archaon sliced heads of Kairos in an instant, once Kairos annoyed him enough. Sure he is tough, but most top tiers can and will take him down.

[gachi is manly]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

Kairos is not that good in combat, his powers are in divination. Martak beat him up in magic duel, when near dead shard of Ulric was fused with Martak and after Martak killed several chaos champions. + Archaon sliced heads of Kairos in an instant, once Kairos annoyed him enough. Sure he is tough, but most top tiers can and will take him down.

If we're talking pure magical power here, you're seriously underrating Kairos. He's one of the strongest wizards in the TT game. The fact he gets beaten in combat doesn't mean much, he's pretty frail and his foresight sometimes leaves him wide open to attacks that are happening NOW because he can't see the present.

[Rookie0879]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lyle Ugleman:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

Kairos is not that good in combat, his powers are in divination. Martak beat him up in magic duel, when near dead shard of Ulric was fused with Martak and after Martak killed several chaos champions. + Archaon sliced heads of Kairos in an instant, once Kairos annoyed him enough. Sure he is tough, but most top tiers can and will take him down.

If we're talking pure magical power here, you're seriously underrating Kairos. He's one of the strongest wizards in the TT game. The fact he gets beaten in combat doesn't mean much, he's pretty frail and his foresight sometimes leaves him wide open to attacks that are happening NOW because he's too busy looking ahead.

His foresight never helped him AFAIK. In AoS he was betrayed by his student, he didn't see that coming. In WFB he failed to see what Archaon will do to him. He failed to come up with a plan to beat Martak (I mean really, Martak rely on most basic magic, he had a lot raw powers thanks to Ulric, but at the moment of duel with Kairos he used most of it). i don't know, Be'Lakor just much more impressive in combat, Gelt, Malekith and Teclis "I-will-banish-daemon-army-with-a-quick-spell" all looks better to me. He is not a weakling, but he just doesn't shine like the others, despite having really good stats in actual game.

[Shandor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shandor:

Settra is not even a Mage?

He prefers to hit things with weapons, but he do knows magic. And since he is the one who most often a threat to Nagash, that puts him on list of most dangerous peoples in WFB world.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lyle Ugleman:

Oh, and don't forget Kairos Fateweaver either. The strongest wizard among all Lords of Change (which are already some of the strongest wizards in existence.)

Kairos is not that good in combat, his powers are in divination. Martak beat him up in magic duel, when near dead shard of Ulric was fused with Martak and after Martak killed several chaos champions. + Archaon sliced heads of Kairos in an instant, once Kairos annoyed him enough. Sure he is tough, but most top tiers can and will take him down.

Most Dangerous People is a total different list then best Magic Users, wich is the Topic here.
Settra knows magic like everyone else on the Planet. It does exist, But thats it.
He had his Hierophants doing the Magic stuff and research for the eternal life.

On a list of the Most Dangerous People there would be Archaon, Aenarion (If you add Kroak too) and Tyrion aso.

But both questions would be really hard to answer. Same like "Strongest Person" or best Fighter.
In lore? on the Table? On the PC?

On the Table would be still hard but probl. the most easy Way to Answer.
If we dont add Dead Characters the winner would be:
Arkhan the Black. As i said above: Because he is the only Level 5 Mage. If we add Dead Characters or include the End Times it would be Nagash of course.

In the Lore its impossible to answer. Because every writer has a different opinion and a different Story.
In the Lore i would make a group of Character who are the most Powerful Magicans. But give them a Number is impossible.
The group would be:
Nagash
Kroak
Morathi
Teclis
Caledor Dragontamer
Malekith
Arkhan the Black

Well its not a ranking its a group of the most Powerful Mages.

[gachi is manly]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lyle Ugleman:

If we're talking pure magical power here, you're seriously underrating Kairos. He's one of the strongest wizards in the TT game. The fact he gets beaten in combat doesn't mean much, he's pretty frail and his foresight sometimes leaves him wide open to attacks that are happening NOW because he's too busy looking ahead.

His foresight never helped him AFAIK. In AoS he was betrayed by his student, he didn't see that coming. In WFB he failed to see what Archaon will do to him. He failed to come up with a plan to beat Martak (I mean really, Martak rely on most basic magic, he had a lot raw powers thanks to Ulric, but at the moment of duel with Kairos he used most of it). i don't know, Be'Lakor just much more impressive in combat, Gelt, Malekith and Teclis "I-will-banish-daemon-army-with-a-quick-spell" all looks better to me. He is not a weakling, but he just doesn't shine like the others, despite having really good stats in actual game.

Good point lol. For a guy who's supposed to be able to predict the future, he does get caught off guard a lot.

[Uga-Buga]

Thanquol is up there as well once he snorts enough warpstone.

It's just 50/50 if he actually does what he wants or accidently summons a demon and kills his own troops.

[Rookie0879]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shandor:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

He prefers to hit things with weapons, but he do knows magic. And since he is the one who most often a threat to Nagash, that puts him on list of most dangerous peoples in WFB world.

Kairos is not that good in combat, his powers are in divination. Martak beat him up in magic duel, when near dead shard of Ulric was fused with Martak and after Martak killed several chaos champions. + Archaon sliced heads of Kairos in an instant, once Kairos annoyed him enough. Sure he is tough, but most top tiers can and will take him down.

Most Dangerous People is a total different list then best Magic Users, wich is the Topic here.
Settra knows magic like everyone else on the Planet. It does exist, But thats it.
He had his Hierophants doing the Magic stuff and research for the eternal life.

On a list of the Most Dangerous People there would be Archaon, Aenarion (If you add Kroak too) and Tyrion aso.

But both questions would be really hard to answer. Same like "Strongest Person" or best Fighter.
In lore? on the Table? On the PC?

On the Table would be still hard but probl. the most easy Way to Answer.
If we dont add Dead Characters the winner would be:
Arkhan the Black. As i said above: Because he is the only Level 5 Mage. If we add Dead Characters or include the End Times it would be Nagash of course.

In the Lore its impossible to answer. Because every writer has a different opinion and a different Story.
In the Lore i would make a group of Character who are the most Powerful Magicans. But give them a Number is impossible.
The group would be:
Nagash
Kroak
Morathi
Teclis
Caledor Dragontamer
Malekith
Arkhan the Black

Well its not a ranking its a group of the most Powerful Mages.

Be'Lakor should really be here, considering that he made Archaon literally immortal (as if Archaon dies and instanly get's back in the fight. Be'Lakor sliced Archaon in two and Archaon was instantly back fighting him again)+ magic of Be'Lakor allowed him ignore Archaon's invulnerable armor. And all of this after Be'Lakor lost favor of Chaos Gods, so in his prime he should've been much more powerful.

Gelt (as incarnate at least) should easily be placed above Morathi, just by the sake of him being incarnate.

Agreed about Arkhan.

[Shandor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shandor:

Most Dangerous People is a total different list then best Magic Users, wich is the Topic here.
Settra knows magic like everyone else on the Planet. It does exist, But thats it.
He had his Hierophants doing the Magic stuff and research for the eternal life.

On a list of the Most Dangerous People there would be Archaon, Aenarion (If you add Kroak too) and Tyrion aso.

But both questions would be really hard to answer. Same like "Strongest Person" or best Fighter.
In lore? on the Table? On the PC?

On the Table would be still hard but probl. the most easy Way to Answer.
If we dont add Dead Characters the winner would be:
Arkhan the Black. As i said above: Because he is the only Level 5 Mage. If we add Dead Characters or include the End Times it would be Nagash of course.

In the Lore its impossible to answer. Because every writer has a different opinion and a different Story.
In the Lore i would make a group of Character who are the most Powerful Magicans. But give them a Number is impossible.
The group would be:
Nagash
Kroak
Morathi
Teclis
Caledor Dragontamer
Malekith
Arkhan the Black

Well its not a ranking its a group of the most Powerful Mages.

Be'Lakor should really be here, considering that he made Archaon literally immortal (as if Archaon dies and instanly get's back in the fight. Be'Lakor sliced Archaon in two and Archaon was instantly back fighting him again)+ magic of Be'Lakor allowed him ignore Archaon's invulnerable armor. And all of this after Be'Lakor lost favor of Chaos Gods, so in his prime he should've been much more powerful.

Gelt (as incarnate at least) should easily be placed above Morathi, just by the sake of him being incarnate.

Agreed about Arkhan.

Gelt? The guy that send Undeads after the Emperor because he was stressed and Tired and did choose the wrong Spell? :)

Well i dont know. Malekith learned all his Magic from his Mom and Malekith in the lore did just wipe out a complete Coast City with one spell.

But yeah Bel'akor should be in the group and maybe some more characters like Ariel? The Lady of the Lake?
Well the other Undeads.. i would not put someone in one group with Nagash if nagash could just kill him with a mindblast 300 miles away.

[TVMAN]

Wurrzag may not be the most powerful mage, but nobody can rival his skills on the dance floor.

[Rookie0879]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shandor:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

Be'Lakor should really be here, considering that he made Archaon literally immortal (as if Archaon dies and instanly get's back in the fight. Be'Lakor sliced Archaon in two and Archaon was instantly back fighting him again)+ magic of Be'Lakor allowed him ignore Archaon's invulnerable armor. And all of this after Be'Lakor lost favor of Chaos Gods, so in his prime he should've been much more powerful.

Gelt (as incarnate at least) should easily be placed above Morathi, just by the sake of him being incarnate.

Agreed about Arkhan.

Gelt? The guy that send Undeads after the Emperor because he was stressed and Tired and did choose the wrong Spell? :)

Well i dont know. Malekith learned all his Magic from his Mom and Malekith in the lore did just wipe out a complete Coast City with one spell.

But yeah Bel'akor should be in the group and maybe some more characters like Ariel? The Lady of the Lake?
Well the other Undeads.. i would not put someone in one group with Nagash if nagash could just kill him with a mindblast 300 miles away.

Gelt really becomes powerful enough, after he became incarnate. Or at least he should be. Although here is the thing. In End of Times novel all incarnates faced some sort of champions of chaos (Alarielle for example faced and killed Hellebron). Funny thing is, Gelt was the only one who did not had a fight with any champion. He was just there, killing armies (big deal, everyone were doing this). I don't know, it just really funny, even Durthu (although he was just there for support) killed at least few bloodthirsters, while Gelt was just killing mooks.

Alarielle... honestly don't know, but why not. Her magic was potent enough for sure.

Lady of the Lake... Lileath was busy hitting things mostly, instead of using her spells in novels.

[Shandor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rookie0879:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Shandor:

Gelt? The guy that send Undeads after the Emperor because he was stressed and Tired and did choose the wrong Spell? :)

Well i dont know. Malekith learned all his Magic from his Mom and Malekith in the lore did just wipe out a complete Coast City with one spell.

But yeah Bel'akor should be in the group and maybe some more characters like Ariel? The Lady of the Lake?
Well the other Undeads.. i would not put someone in one group with Nagash if nagash could just kill him with a mindblast 300 miles away.

Gelt really becomes powerful enough, after he became incarnate. Or at least he should be. Although here is the thing. In End of Times novel all incarnates faced some sort of champions of chaos (Alarielle for example faced and killed Hellebron). Funny thing is, Gelt was the only one who did not had a fight with any champion. He was just there, killing armies (big deal, everyone were doing this). I don't know, it just really funny, even Durthu (although he was just there for support) killed at least few bloodthirsters, while Gelt was just killing mooks.

Alarielle... honestly don't know, but why not. Her magic was potent enough for sure.

Lady of the Lake... Lileath was busy hitting things mostly, instead of using her spells in novels.

Well the incarnates all should be above the group of Mages i made and all other Mages. They got a Wind of Magic connected with them and got Demigods or something. Thats not fair.

[Marko 82]

Caledor is trapped inside vortex and playing chess with Khaine according to Ty and Tec novel.He even scared Morathi to withdraw. My vote to him.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von jinjayx:

Also, where should Balthasar Gelt be?
I read from Wiki he is like a "big deal"

But in game, he just SUCKS!

Even a normal Vampire Lord is stronger than him.
(Better combat stats, Better Magic Lore)

Yeah, in the TW games, Gelt is still bad even with the Foundation update, and this despite in lore being quite powerful.

The TW:W games are a blast, but the lore is kind of fudged, at times, and pushed around. For one big point, Manny of the VCs is probably one of the best magic users in either game, using two full lores and still being decent in melee. Yet in most folks' lists based on lore, he's not even in the top ten of magic users.

So, while the game does a great job at nailing atmosphere and units, it sometimes does a less-than-stellar service to the heroes and lords.