It's not Total War anymore, it's Archers War: Warhammer (and it's sad)

[blinch]

I played total war series a lot, even in first shogun, but archers balance Mortal Empire and W2 make me really upset.

It's just total dominance archers here, High elves and Wooden elves aka "pay-to-win" like are have God Mode. You don't need complex army set anymore, no-no, just get 15 archers and a few infantry, it's all, now every your battles will looks like "pew-pew" we win, 50 losses. 1300 kills.

Very funny when High elves attack you, they have archer-spearmen, and you even can't counter-pick them with your cavalry or flying-units, cause they will kill cavalry too, what a nice-balanced units (rest and peace bretonnia).

Even in high-end siege you can't counter them, cause elves much stronger on ground(!) then Empire(for example) gunner on wall with towers !

It's all make me really sad, I'd like total war for good tactics, unexpected maneuvers, etc.

Not for standing and pew-pew-win without looses.
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update:
Sorry if I make angry anybody, I was wrong with all above, shame on me T _T

In the shell I played Bretonnia in Mortal Empire company on very hard difficult, and early\mid game was just hard rаped many times by High Elves from west and Wooden elves from east archer army packs. They really beat me in one-on-one fight. And also they easy beat every my town in siege,even 5 level city with 4 level wall, with 20-30 loss.

But after I get army with 6 Grail Guardians and 8 Royal Hippogryph Knights things change on 180* and now archers just food for my cute hippogryphs.

So yeah, I was totaly wrong and just maked cry-shiт-post.

Regarding "pay-to-win" wooden elves, I said this cause thinking then CA make them more stronger then "free" bretonnia, but now I think it's just different play-style race.

[TaurusBully]

Wood Elves are pretty hard in the pc hand, since a lot of them can fire while moving and in all directions, and also have ap damage and are fast.

Now HE does not have it much better than empire or dwarfs or DE. Heavy cavalry or chariots still stomp them hard.

[Anorexorcist]

Originally posted by Darkaiser:

I've beaten HE, DE and WE as well as the tried and true Empire with Vampires of all flavors. You remember Vampiures, right? The guys with NO shooting at all?

Meet me online sometime, bring an army of 15 archers and a Lord and I'll slaughter you, every time.

Nothing personnel, kid.

[Vacca]

Originally posted by Octob3r:

"pay-to-win" in a mostly singleplayer game. Get out.

Considering the l00tcrate nonsense some games have started to sport recently (both shadow of war and ac: origin), even tho for now harmless...

[Zugs]

archers are only great early game. mid and late game you bring your archers and I'll bring ratmen, see how that works out.

[osheamat]

I lost faith after they attempted to show how much better the AI was in ROME II. That was a fail.

[Red Bat]

Originally posted by Zugs:

archers are only great early game. mid and late game you bring your archers and I'll bring ratmen, see how that works out.

Well archers are just about the only counter to Gutter Runners in the game. Specifically Glade Riders with Hagbane tips tend to decimate them, and most of the Skaven's unit roster. Wood Elves in general tend to do very well vs Skaven and Lizardmen armies.

[Trel1305]

Originally posted by Zugs:

archers are only great early game. mid and late game you bring your archers and I'll bring ratmen, see how that works out.

Wood elf ranged would melt those skaven

[Dax]

Originally posted by mustachewarfare:

Thought high elves archer had terrible AP value

Its not high, but they're good against anything mostly. In my high elf campaign I've got a minimum of 6 archers per army, with all the army buffs and triple gold chevrons they're at 43 missile damage before any in-combat buffs to add to that with a fairly high fire rate, the longest range and a good amount of ammo. They're definitely amazing, but they're elven archers afterall! Elves were always amazing at archery in right about every single fantasy universe featuring elves.

[eldiabs]

A player army with 6 cavalry, then an assortment of whatever else, would absolutely destroy a archer doom stack with minimum micro. I've been able to control 4 archer units with a single cavalry unit with minimal losses.

There are multiple counters for every unit in this game, including archers. Even a standoff artillery half or quarter stack would absolutely destroy HE or WE archers before they even got close to being in range.

Try playing differently. You might enjoy it more. You have a wee bit to learn if you're complaining about simple game a.i. and archers. Honestly, they are extremely simple to deal with. Probably the easiest stack to deal with in the game as most archers are absolute mush against anything with charge. Even the sea guard can't stand up against a couple of well time cavalry charges or some early battle artillery.

[Purin]

Archers are really threatening even back in the day. It is like having a gun against a sword. Massive range always turn tides of battle. The downside really is having to make a crap ton of arrows. That are many war lords in history that are absolutely dominant due to superior range. Elves simply are great at archery. It is never 100 balanced. Every faction is different, you just have to learn and adapt. Spearman archer bolt combo will always dominate in defensive formation. The playstyle is simple and versatile

[Aluminum Elite Master]

HE archers are a nightmare for Skaven, IMO. Too little armor, too little range, and no cavalry (though you at least have the pricey Doomwheel chariot as well as most of your infantry being a bit faster than usual).

But you know what? Lizardmen eat HE archers for breakfast.

Like the very first response on the thread says: elven archers typically have awful AP damage values. The primary exception is the WE top-tier archer (Waywatchers?) that gets an AP buff from enemies being at a certain distance.

Really, most factions can handle the long-range elven archers pretty easily... Dwarfs have tons of armor... Empire has good mobility and a handful of shielded units... VC are super mobile and can resurrect anyways... Lizardmen have good armor and HP... even Greenskins, while not always highly armored, have enough mobility along with rather expendable missile-sponges (goblins).

Only Skaven tends to suffer from what I see, and that's because they have relatively lower armor on enough units. They at least have their missile-sponge expendables, yes, but Skaven doesn't always have great armor, and their ability to quickly get in and challenge enemy ranged infantry is limited to the clan-rat spawning ability.

All of that said, even as Skaven, when the battle is against the CPU, you should probably not have so much trouble with archers... pretty easy to bait all the enemy ammunition with a couple of expendable units prior to really getting into the thick of things.

[Rhedd]

Originally posted by Aluminum Elite Master:

...

Only Skaven tends to suffer from what I see, and that's because they have relatively lower armor on enough units. They at least have their missile-sponge expendables, yes, but Skaven doesn't always have great armor, and their ability to quickly get in and challenge enemy ranged infantry is limited to the clan-rat spawning ability.

...

So, limited to only the most terrifyingly effective anti-archer, anti-backline flanking ability in the entire game, hands-down? Yep.

[Shandor]

Originally posted by Zane87:

Honestly, the archer heavy armies are kind of the meta of HE and WE (and DE, tbf).
It's kinda their thing.

But you can be wrecked easily, even by Ai with those army setups.
Just try to win against a monster heavy Liz or a swarming Skaven player.

The former will just plow through your Seaguards or infantry, the latter will swarm you from all sides with cheap units who just eat your arrows all the while their artie is picking you off one by one.

Old races have similiar options (except Bretonnia, as others have stated here, they are screwed).


As a archer heavy player from the old TW games, I have to say an all-out-shoot army is neither as reliable nor as useful as it was in older games, thanks to great arty, magic and rank crushing monsters. It is now way better to deal with those kind of armies, and even a melee-only army is enjoyable now imho.

So yeah, pretty much disagree with OP

I agree total with you. Ranged Armies are my favorite enemys because its a easy win.
And for the dumb AI its just the most easy way to build and play an Army. Lots of Archers and some Spearman to block enemys. In theory not bad but in real, easy to smash.

And complaining about Highelves unsing lots of Range?
Whats next? Complaining About Chaos Melee Armies? Dwarves with War Machienes? omfg! :)

[Algol]

If archers are so OP, how come vampires are one of the most popular factions in singleplayer and one of the strongest (if not the strongest) in multiplayer? They don't have archers at all.

[DD The Pumpkin King]

Don't brag about beating the AI