Total War: WARHAMMER II

Total War: WARHAMMER II

Προβολή στατιστικών:
Who is the strongest fighter of all time in Warhammer fantasy?
Is it Aenarion? if not , who is?
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The great forum necromancer.
"Aenarion pre sword of khaine was probably weaker than tyrion"
Err in your dreams.
before taking the sword, he was already a daemon killing machine and during his life, daemons were not" fish out of water" kind of daemons, as magic was saturating the very air, they were in full power.
Aenarion didn't pick up the sword because he was strugling fighting without it, but because the daemonic invasion had no end in sight and he could simply not be in enough places at the rigth time to avoid his folks dying in the places in was not.
Aenarion was blessed by Asuryan way before taking the sword and he led armies every days against endless daemonic hordes.

With the sword and his mount he solo'ed an army then 4 greater daemon (including big names like N'Kari) at the same time and still won the whole thing, albeit barely.
I understand peoples wanting their favourite character i nthe lore to be the "strongest" but Aenarion was basically able to solo overpowered armies every day at the end of his life.

There is no one that had accomplished so much with a melee weapon in his lifetime.

Τελευταία επεξεργασία από zefyris; 5 Απρ 2020, 12:27
𝒦.ℒ.ℬ. (Αποκλεισμένος) 5 Απρ 2020, 13:30 
Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ArchaicReaper:
Abhorash is canonically decided as THE greatest warrior in all the world, with Gilles le Breton being second best or his equal.
Edit.
If you want just the physically strongest, it's Greasus Goldtooth. Guy squeezed a Black Orc to death with his bare hands and nearly punched his Standard Bearer over a mountain.


theres some lore we don't need to know for warhammer..
that stupidity is a good example.
Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από SpaceGoatMage:
The great forum necromancer.
It was either this or creating an entirely new thread to debate fighters.



Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zefyris:
"Aenarion pre sword of khaine was probably weaker than tyrion"
Err in your dreams.
before taking the sword, he was already a daemon killing machine and during his life, daemons were not" fish out of water" kind of daemons, as magic was saturating the very air, they were in full power.

He was a powerful elven warrior and the general of the elven armies. He was no pushover, that's for sure, but he wasn't implied to be anything more than a powerful and competent leader. He did accomplished numerous victories against the demons, as did many other races, but those weren't Aenarions feats or duels, they were the elven armies marching unified under Aenarions flag.

I repeat again, Aenarion was a great warrior and a superb commander, but pre-sword he doesn't have any special feats when it comes to PERSONAL POWER. Its never stated or even remotely implied to have duel a greater demon (or even a demon prince) 1v1 before.


Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zefyris:
Aenarion didn't pick up the sword because he was strugling fighting without it, but because the daemonic invasion had no end in sight and he could simply not be in enough places at the rigth time to avoid his folks dying in the places in was not.
Aenarion was blessed by Asuryan way before taking the sword and he led armies every days against endless daemonic hordes.
Indeed. Still it doesn't change the fact that the sword is outright stated to give him power beyond his wildest dreams, to (quoting) "made him unstoppable"

Aenarion was already the anointed of Asuryan, but the Sword of Khaine made him nigh unstoppable. He used the sword to kill four Greater Daemons of Chaos at once, although he was mortally wounded in the process. Before dying he thrust the Widowmaker back into the Altar of Khaine, where it remains.

It is clearly stated in several sources (starting by high elf history) that the sword gave Aenarion FAR more power than he previously had. That the sword turns the wielder into someone capable of slaying gods and mortals alike.

It is sometimes considered the most powerful weapon in the Warhammer World, even more than Ghal Maraz or the Axes of the Dwarf Ancestor God Grimnir, capable of even killing the gods. The weapon is considered so powerful that if it were wielded again it could change the course of the history of the Elves and of the whole world.

And with a weapon that canonically amplified his combat prowess immensely, he defeated those 4 greater demons. By such a thin margin he didn't survive the wounds of that battle, the demons did succeed in killing him at the end, but still, at the very end of the battle, only Aenarion was standing.

What does that means?

That if a VERY amplified and empowered version of Aenarion barely could defeat those demons, a "normal" Aenarion without the sword would have failed spectacularly.

His only personal feat was made possible only through borrowed power, not because of his personal power/merits/skills.

Its like if a chaos sorcerer X use his powers to summon an army of demons and through that, he kills a lone character Y. Or if a dragon prince X on top of a dragon defeats another dragon prince Y on foot (or on a regular horse) That doesn't prove X superiority over Y. X in those examples have a VERY important advantage.




Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zefyris:
With the sword and his mount he solo'ed an army then 4 greater daemon (including big names like N'Kari) at the same time and still won the whole thing, albeit barely.

And kroak killed a hundred thousand demons in a single spell.

Impressive, but not entirely his feat, as he achieved it through borrowed power, using the old ones defense systems)

And Nagash killed the biggest nation on earth and raised it from the dead while also stalemating the skaven underempire till the point they were about to surrender (canonically, the skaven decided they couldn't win the war and were about to retreat when nagash emissaries)

But he couldn't have done it without the massive warpstone deposits either.

A personal feat is a personal feat. Like arkham, who (being previously undefeated) stopped the 7 armies of the 7 kingdoms for HOURS until a spear impaled him when he was standing atop a mountain of corpses he had personally slain.


Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zefyris:
I understand peoples wanting their favourite character i nthe lore to be the "strongest" but Aenarion was basically able to solo overpowered armies every day at the end of his life.

My few favourite characters arent even in the top 30 most of them.
I love noctilus, and he cant hold a candle to any of the characters we are discussing, and I prefer Azhag to Grimgor, but any slim chance Azhag could have will disappear if we force him to fight fair without his crown.

Again, I repeat, Aenarion was able to overpower armies only with the power the sword of Khaine granted him, not because he was capable to do it. We have actual characters that have stalemated armies on their own. We have people that have soloed dragons. And dragons can fight greater demons one on one ( the results can vary depending on the breed of dragon and demon, but stats-wise and lorewise, it's feasible for both a dragon to defeat a greater demon or for a greater demon to defeat a dragon)

Aenarion couldn't overpower armies solo. Only aenarion with the godslayer could.

Just like kroak couldn't kill a hundred thousand demons in a single spell solo or nagash could conquer the planet solo. (if was stated that he would have taken both all the surface and all the underempire with ease if the ritual would have been completed)

If you require external help to do X, it's not correct to state that you can do X.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από zefyris:
There is no one that had accomplished so much with a melee weapon in his lifetime.

There's no one that had accomplished such a thing on their own merits in his lifetime.
Including Aenarion.

I mean, the answer has to Sigmar, right? A mortal who becomes the single most powerful god.
Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Green Raven:
I mean, the answer has to Sigmar, right? A mortal who becomes the single most powerful god.

Sigmar post-godhood is discarded, as stated by OP-

Pre godhood he was extremely powerful, and a serious contender (definitely top 10 I would say)

But I´m not sure he would be the strongest.

Nagash pre-endtimes was stronger than him, despite missing a chunk of his soul (and thus, a decent chunk of his power) and sigmar being partially protected against nagash magic by the crown of sorcery and mannfred betrayal.

The Lord of Men and the Lord of Death, and great was Nagash's rage at seeing his crown worn by a mortal man, as well as his desire to at last claim it that he could arise again from the ashes. Yet Nagash was a being far greater than even Sigmar can imagine, and though with Ghal-Maraz in his hand, the Emperor was struck by powers so strong and magic so fell that he was forced upon his knees. As Sigmar stood on the threshold of death, trying desperately to hold against the dark will of Nagash. As all hope seemed lost, to the north, a great army of fanatics arrived over the horizon and in that moment of distraction, Sigmar was freed from his will and took the crown off his brow.

Nagash's greed led him to reach for his crown with outstretched fingers when Sigmar cast it off and goaded Nagash to take it. Such desire and obsession. Such aching need and devotion. Nothing else mattered to Nagash, not the defeat of Sigmar’s army, not the destruction of all living things. Nothing was more important to the necromancer than this crown. In this, just as the Heldenhammer had expected, Nagash had made his faux pass, leaving himself vulnerable for a thunderous sweep of Ghal-Maraz.


And the everchosen of his time stalemated him, despite being weaker than archaon.

But little was this compared to the titanic duel between Sigmar and Morkar, and the mortal world has never before nor since seen the equal of that cataclysmic clash of titans.

For a day and a night did Sigmar duel the champion of the Northern gods, in a battle likened to that between gods themselves. The fury of their combat did rend apart the sky and split the ground asunder with peals of thunder, strikes of lightning and raging torrents of fire. The two avatars of the gods matched their arms in such glorious contest, at last they had found their equals.


Im definitely putting sigmar VERY high in the tier, who knows, maybe he is, if we discard magical powers and fancy equipment, but there's definitely plenty of room to doubt.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Gorwe:
Ungrim or Gotrek?
Gotrek would slay Ungrim.
Thank you, Green Raven.

Its Sigmar, you bloody heretics.
Damn was about to say Abhorash but someone beat me to it!
Papa Nurgle, deadly plague hugs never fail.
Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ✳Sindri Myr✳:
Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Gorwe:
Ungrim or Gotrek?
Gotrek would slay Ungrim.

That's only because Gotrek is empowered by his Axe. Without it, Ungrim is definitely better.
Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Gorwe:
Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ✳Sindri Myr✳:
Gotrek would slay Ungrim.

That's only because Gotrek is empowered by his Axe. Without it, Ungrim is definitely better.
In a drunk tavern fight Ungrim wins, no contest.
Aenarion. I dont know any other martial fighter who have defeated not just one, but four Greater Daemons at the same time. Although he was armed with the Sword of Khaine and had the help of his massive Dragon (I think the Dragon killed one of the great daemons, the Nurgle one, while Aenarion killed the other three). And of course, he had killed at least one other Greater Daemon some time before this (N'kari) as well as countless lesser enemies.

Nagash probably is, or at least was, at least as powerful, maybe even more so, but he was not a martial fighter but a spell-caster.

Sigmar of course also managed to kill a Greater Deaemon of Khorne, as well as Nagash himself (not while the Great Necromancer was peaking though, but later).

The Dwarf Ancestor Gods were probably also enormously powerful back when they walked the earth, especially Grimnir who also marched around destroying hordes of Daemons, but they were of course not really mortal.

But of course, deciding one character who is the best fighter of all time is probably impossible as most of them never met - or at least never fought each other (like Aenarion and Grimnir).
Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ✳Sindri Myr✳:
Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Gorwe:
Ungrim or Gotrek?
Gotrek would slay Ungrim.

Quite the opposite in fact.
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