Now let people leave reviews for these products during these early access periods, because currently you do not and the only reason I can think of is to put the publishers/developers/ wants over the customers'.

Originally posted by Julmara:

less incentive to preorder now and shove extra money into corpo throats for 3 days early access
but some people need to be burned a hundred times by the likes of ubisoft and ea and yet never learn

So in other words, what you are saying is that your incentive for buying pre-order "deluxe" pre-access editions was to play and finish the game to refund it, circumventing the refund policy, hence getting all the value of the product for nothing. Which would translate to using pre-access as a method to pirate games.

edit: Don't get me wrong, I abhor the idea of pre-access deluxe editions and do not buy pre-order packages, waste of money in my book since those companies offering it seem to use those pre-access periods for paid last minute mass beta testing. But the idea to play for 24/48/72 or however many hours you can get in within the pre-access period, and still want to refund, seems like a criminal incentive to me.

hellequin your an idiot to pal don't point at people saying idiots that's just hate coz you think your better you forget no one here are rocket scientists and many are kids and people with difficulties along with health/mental conditions your a human like everyone else humans all ♥♥♥♥ up so learn from your issues your no better don't insult others when you only being narrow minded dont hate
peace and love all

ok

It's a pity you can't get your money back after you've played 1000 hours

Originally posted by 尺ㄩᗪ乇:

It's a pity you can't get your money back after you've played 1000 hours

lol

Originally posted by BMaster:

hellequin your an idiot to pal don't point at people saying idiots that's just hate coz you think your better you forget no one here are rocket scientists and many are kids and people with difficulties along with health/mental conditions your a human like everyone else humans all ♥♥♥♥ up so learn from your issues your no better don't insult others when you only being narrow minded dont hate
peace and love all

Your critique on morality would make actual sense if you hadn't done the same ;)
But I still hold to my judgement. A decade ago I would have agreed, but nowadays I really don't anymore. Too many publishers and studios that have a proven track record of scammy/criminal methods exist.

Children, at least where I am from, are not even allowed to have Steam accounts by law, since they are not old enough to be allowed to have financial transactions without parental supervision or supervision of their legal guardian. If they buy something, the contract is void by law. So children are implicitly excluded from the statement.
People that are so mentally impaired that they are unable to do due diligence, are unable to understand the contracts they try to enter, are the same as children around here and do have supervision through a legal guardian. They are inherently restricted to form contracts, their legal guardians need to sign up on it. So they too are inherently excluded.

I also can get behind people that get burned by scammy companies once, since trust in your contractual partner is also something normal, but they too are kinda excluded in my message since I coupled the "idiots" to people that fall into the same trap multiple times.
If I watch someone running head first into a wall a few times, then I consider them idiots. If they are children or are impaired, they have a valid excuse, anyone else? Not so much.

edit: Also how would you know that there aren't rocket scientists here? It's highly likely that there are some of those around here.

edit 2: Also, yes, sometimes I am an idiot through behavior, as everyone else is too, but I am quite happy and do encourage the people around me to call me an idiot in those instances. Getting called out on being an idiot helps to stop being an idiot, at least if you're not overly sensitive and have too high an opinion of yourself.

They simply need to develop high quality games that deter customers from requesting refunds.

Originally posted by Hellequin:

Originally posted by BMaster:

hellequin your an idiot to pal don't point at people saying idiots that's just hate coz you think your better you forget no one here are rocket scientists and many are kids and people with difficulties along with health/mental conditions your a human like everyone else humans all ♥♥♥♥ up so learn from your issues your no better don't insult others when you only being narrow minded dont hate
peace and love all

Your critique on morality would make actual sense if you hadn't done the same ;)
But I still hold to my judgement. A decade ago I would have agreed, but nowadays I really don't anymore. Too many publishers and studios that have a proven track record of scammy/criminal methods exist.

Children, at least where I am from, are not even allowed to have Steam accounts by law, since they are not old enough to be allowed to have financial transactions without parental supervision or supervision of their legal guardian. If they buy something, the contract is void by law. So children are implicitly excluded from the statement.
People that are so mentally impaired that they are unable to do due diligence, are unable to understand the contracts they try to enter, are the same as children around here and do have supervision through a legal guardian. They are inherently restricted to form contracts, their legal guardians need to sign up on it. So they too are inherently excluded.

I also can get behind people that get burned by scammy companies once, since trust in your contractual partner is also something normal, but they too are kinda excluded in my message since I coupled the "idiots" to people that fall into the same trap multiple times.
If I watch someone running head first into a wall a few times, then I consider them idiots. If they are children or are impaired, they have a valid excuse, anyone else? Not so much.

lol i get your point honestly i do i was merely pointing out don't call others idiots if you cant take it yourself because i don't care if anyone call me an idiot i think i am an idiot but oh well its funny don't jump the gun please we all die one day and i restrict my son from adultery as this is discussing to be around kids and i restrict his purchases and obviously physical violence but other than that kids need to learn and not be bubble wrapped that can mess up a child's understanding in life as it is proven to stunt there growth and understanding :)

The refund's policy should remove the right to refund for games under something like $2.
At the same time, they need to increase the play time from 2 hours as some games take more than that just to get past the intro.
There should be an estimated hours of game provided by the devs & the refund play time should be calculated on that.
Just my 2 cents as a game dev.

Originally posted by Magnvs:

Originally posted by REDMVGE:

I mean yeah, it should work like this.

As long as beta's don't count towards the same if a beta is a pre-order perk. Because an unfinished version of any game shouldn't count towards total playtime.

It seems you misunderstood the update. Beta and pre-release game time WILL count and negate your ability to refund.

You got it wrong.

Originally posted by Steam Refund Policy:

When you purchase a title on Steam prior to the release date, the two-hour playtime limit for refunds will apply (except for beta testing)[...]

i have respect to that hellequin didn't see your edits till after txt and reloaded lol to the rocket scientist thing i put it coz if there is any here there less likely to be here chatting as they don't have time being a rocket scientist your to busy for pleasure yeah design and programming is a big thing they be doing but that takes a lot of time too

Originally posted by BMaster:

lol i get your point honestly i do i was merely pointing out don't call others idiots if you cant take it yourself because i don't care if anyone call me an idiot i think i am an idiot but oh well its funny don't jump the gun please we all die one day and i restrict my son from adultery as this is discussing to be around kids and i restrict his purchases and obviously physical violence but other than that kids need to learn and not be bubble wrapped that can mess up a child's understanding in life as it is proven to stunt there growth and understanding :)

As I said, children shouldn't be here, or if they are, they should only have access through family mode on the parents account, which allows the parent to limit their access to specified games and pretty much nothing more.

Generally speaking, children should never have unsupervised access to anything internet - it's simply not a space for them and never will be. And if I say children I mean anything under 14. Teens should have limited (whitelisted) access that allows them to learn to interact safely with online communities. Somewhere around 16, they can get full access and interact with the depravity and harmful interactions that they inevitably will have online, in a manner that has them prepared to not being harmed in the long term. Being online will be harmful at some point, the question is only if the harm is long term or short term, which is a question of education and timing for the individual.

But I think that's enough off-topic discussion I'd say.

Originally posted by BMaster:

i have respect to that hellequin didn't see your edits till after txt and reloaded lol to the rocket scientist thing i put it coz if there is any here there less likely to be here chatting as they don't have time being a rocket scientist your to busy for pleasure yeah design and programming is a big thing they be doing but that takes a lot of time too

Work hours are work hours, private time is private time. That's true even for rocket scientists ;) They too need time to relax. ^^

i got the game sky children of the light and it wont let me pop it up and play

Originally posted by pattyandchrisforever:

i got the game sky children of the light and it wont let me pop it up and play

If it doesn't start you won't have 2h playtime in it, so just refund it as not working?