Frozen titans, most awkward squad?

[Hedning]

Ok, so here's the rundown of all the squads I've played so far, switching whenever I got all achievements:
Rift walkers: 4/4 victories on normal
Rusting Hulks: 3/4
Zenith Guard: 3/3
Steel Judoka: 3/3
Started playing hard here because I got a perfect score with the Judokas.
Blitzkrieg: 11/13
Flame Behemoths: 6/7
Frozen titans: ... drum roll ... 0/3 (do I have to go back to normal?)

The worst thing about it is that the only mech that can push shoots backwards, which potentially kills my own stuff and the ranged mech which in most squads is the life saver freezes himself so he can only be used every other turn unless he blocks. I assume he is meant to block my brute, but that rarely works, especially since he can't stand directly in front of the building but must have a gap because of the push.

Do you guys agree? I've seen some tier lists and they usually are not at the top, but is there anyone here who really likes them and can explain why you like them?

[Veritas]

they have an awkward island 1 but freeze is just insanely overpowered. you can even do ♥♥♥♥ like freeze the trains and win without them moving into danger. the aegis mech weapon is just okay, and it doesn't scale great so you generally want to buy a second, higher damage weapon for it at some point. Stuff like titanite blade is pretty good despite limited uses.

Common practice is to pair a secret pilot or Bethany with the freeze mech so that the shield blocks the self freeze. Another strategy is to put Harold in the mirror mech and that essentially turns it into a Pulse Mech when you use repair, on top of having the weapon.

[letir]

They have hard time with unruly Brute and killing enemies in general, but shielded freezer is one of the most OP units in the game.

[Hedning]

Originally posted by Snazzy Dragon:

Common practice is to pair a secret pilot or Bethany with the freeze mech so that the shield blocks the self freeze.

I haven't found any secret pilots yet, but yes, thank you for the Bethany tip.

[Duke Leto Atreides]

Using Kazaaakpleth as your time traveller allows you to turn any mech into a decent melee fighter. That usually help with mechs that have obtuse abilities like the Mirror Mech.

[ゲ-で]

Take any shielded pilot - boom easiest squad in your life.

[SquareDildo]

When you use the Freeze mech for blocking, it can easily deal with two threats in the same turn and it gets unfrozen. It's flying so you have an easy time positioning. Janus Cannon (on the brute) can either unfreeze you or... deal with two threats at once. Aegis Mech (flip direction) can easily deal with monsters in a tight spot, you don't need to kill to remove a threat. It gets even better with the cheap shield upgrade, which makes it easy to... deal with two threats at once.

My opinion, from experience: it's a powerful squad, but one of the least straightforward. There's almost always a clean solution to everything on Hard, without losing objectives, pilots, or taking grid damage. The downside is that it makes your head hurt more. In this sense they're the opposite of Blitzkrieg and Zenith Guard, who easily deal with simple threats but lack flexibility.

If you're using a shield to cancel self-freeze, you're missing out. You can no longer tank shots or block spawns effectively.

Aegis Mech (flip direction) and Ice Mech (freeze) don't need to push to disable a threat, so what's the point about inability to push??? Mist Eaters have 0 (zero) mechs that can push but it's a powerful and easy to play squad.

[Hedning]

Originally posted by SquareDildo:

When you use the Freeze mech for blocking, it can easily deal with two threats in the same turn and it gets unfrozen. It's flying so you have an easy time positioning. Janus Cannon (on the brute) can either unfreeze you or... deal with two threats at once. Aegis Mech (flip direction) can easily deal with monsters in a tight spot, you don't need to kill to remove a threat. It gets even better with the cheap shield upgrade, which makes it easy to... deal with two threats at once.

The ranged class can almost always deal with 2 threats at once, or deal with that enemy that is out of reach. That's the purpose of the class, but with other squads they don't sacrifice their next turn for it. Yes it is flying, but it is also the ranged class, the least useful flyer normally.

Take a look at this: First turn. Super awkward.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2843354206
See how even given infinite movement the brute cannot attack 2 at once. Even worse he cannot attack any enemy in a meaningful way without doing self damage.

Imagine only the digger enemy is on the map. The only way to save my power is to freeze myself and only have 2 mechs next turn. Now, with the remaining enemies and given I have to sacrifice the freeze for the digger it is easy to see that with the default weapons I cannot avoid damage even everything was fully upgraded.

[SquareDildo]

I don't think it proves anything - you have 4 pylons threatened at the same time, which is hard to deal with any squad, and you have an Alpha Digger, one of the most notorious enemies.

Why did you put Kai Miller, the +damage pilot, in the freeze mech?

If only the digger was on the map, I would put the Freeze mech at the emerging Vek near the scorpion and freeze the pylon. Pylon attacked by digger saved, emerging vek blocked.

[Hedning]

Originally posted by SquareDildo:

I don't think it proves anything - you have 4 pylons threatened at the same time, which is hard to deal with any squad, and you have an Alpha Digger, one of the most notorious enemies.

Why did you put Kai Miller, the +damage pilot, in the freeze mech?

It's absoluteny not, it's what happens all the time. What game are you playing? And I put him in because I bought another primary weapon for it.

But I'll do Brittany next. It sounds very obvious and it fixes the main issue.

[SquareDildo]

Originally posted by Hedning:

It's absoluteny not, it's what happens all the time. What game are you playing? And I put him in because I bought another primary weapon for it.

But I'll do Brittany next. It sounds very obvious and it fixes the main issue.

Having Bethany would do nothing to save you that turn - it's the very definition of cherry picking. You have 4 different enemies attacking 4 different targets in 4 different corners of the board, and it's the Volcanic Hive, which is a special case - for instance it doesn't let you to pre-position your mechs. It didn't get out of hand because one of your mechs was frozen - there was no previous turn.

[Hedning]

Of course it helps, it lets me start the next turn with 50% more mechs, and all other turns after that will be easier as well. Sure I'll take damage still, but it's not nearly as bad as also temporarily losing a mech. Also it's not cherry picking. It's literally where I was as I wrote the comment. Pre-positioning the mechs on the other hand wouldn't make any difference. I could reach anywhere anyways.

[SquareDildo]

Originally posted by Hedning:

Take a look at this: First turn. Super awkward.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2843354206
See how even given infinite movement the brute cannot attack 2 at once. Even worse he cannot attack any enemy in a meaningful way without doing self damage.

Infinite movement you say? I'll play.

Mirror Mech walks 7 distance and shoots Alpha Digger for 3+1(bump) damage, killing it. Freeze Mech lands in front of the Alpha Firefly, freezes the Scorpion, gets unfrozen by Alpha Firefly in its turn and takes 1 damage for blocking emerging Vek. Aegis Mech walks up to Firefly Leader and smacks it, flipping its attack.

Result: 1 mech damage, no grid damage, 1 enemy killed, 1 frozen, 1 damaged, 1 emerging Vek blocked.

7 movement is rare, but possible. 5 movement is possible with any pilot, you could get +2 (for Mirror Mech) from Lily Reed, a pilot with Opener or Skilled. It's more common than before.
Also, you can get away with 4 movement for the Mirror Mech if you get Henry Kwan (walks through enemies) or Prospero (flying when powered with 1 core). I keep saying that movement pilots are super important for Brute mechs because they're invariably directional.

[Hedning]

If you insist it was cherry picking, here's where I am right now. Still troubling. This is 2nd island but I have no move upgrades yet. Try to solve this with the default weapons and taking no damage: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2843382705

[Hedning]

Originally posted by SquareDildo:

Infinite movement you say?

I said infinite movement for dealing with 2 enemies, not for solving it with no damage taken.

[SquareDildo]

Originally posted by Hedning:

Of course it helps, it lets me start the next turn with 50% more mechs,

You're showing the first turn so it's not possible for the Ice Mech to start frozen.

and all other turns after that will be easier as well. Sure I'll take damage still, but it's not nearly as bad as also temporarily losing a mech. Also it's not cherry picking. It's literally where I was as I wrote the comment. Pre-positioning the mechs on the other hand wouldn't make any difference. I could reach anywhere anyways.

Pre-positioning matters because it also lets you body block the most inconvenient spots, so Vek can't stand there. Not to mention you have Gana, whose special ability is directly countered by the special case that is the 2-stage final fight.

I don't have trouble with Frozen Titans, 3 achievements unlocked, I enjoyed the squad. On the other hand I still don't have the '30 minutes' achievement for Blitzkrieg because I'm bad at thinking fast.