the game feels like a demo

[info]

a demo for a bigger, deeper and longer game.

that's what it feels like

stop trying to FTL everything up. not everything has to be a rogue-lite

the game should have a real campaign, more islands -- why Islands at all... why not a continent?

I can't believe most of the work is not in the design itself and making it bigger wouldn't be so much work?

I'd pay 30$ for a game that didn't feel so limited

[Flap]

That's an interesting remark. Actually I don't think your feeling is a matter of content, but rather of game flow.
There are more than 100 maps and more than 20 mechs. Which is quite a lot.
But the game flow makes you experience a tiny bit of it each playthrough...

[Genväg]

A static campaign feels like an odd fit for this game.
The overarching theme in ITB seems to be "♥♥♥♥ hits the fan; deal with it" and thinking on your feet. If you went through a static progression of maps in the same order (which is what I'm assuming you mean by campaign), that would go against how you're forced to adapt to changing scenarios every single timeline.

FTL was a classic, ITB is well on the way to the same place in my mind.
What's wrong with that?

[pixel_rice_bowl]

Originally posted by Genväg:

FTL was a classic, ITB is well on the way to the same place in my mind.
What's wrong with that?

I think FTL has a broader appeal on several dimensions. I like ITB, but FTL's atmosphere, music, and mechanics are all superior. I can't see myself playing ITB for hundreds of hours across half a decade like I did with FTL.

Once you mastered the basic systems, FTL let you ride that sweet spot on the events curve where you could maximize positive outcomes and mitigate negative ones. You responded to random scenarios as they developed in real time based on all the choices you made beforehand, and these in turn affected the range of your future choices. This was extremely satisfying.

ITB, however, requires patience and strategic thinking yet doesn't reward it as well. It's more like chess--far more predictable and not at all modular. You must carefully consider multiple options each turn and your choices don't have as much impact over the course of the playthrough as in FTL. It's a lot of mental effort considering the payoff. Unlike FTL, you can't just approximate the value of a system or roll the dice; most choices in ITB come down to positioning and so are clearly good or clearly bad, and rng won't bail you out of a disastrous play with a lucky weapon or full repair.

The atmosphere is also less interesting. Space exploration provides nearly limitless metaphysical possibilities, and FTL taps into a few of those with their world and character building. ITB dances on the periphery of time travel but is otherwise a passible post-apocalyptic earth. This also ties into the music: Prunty composes some great pieces, but the FTL album is still his crowning achievement.

I like ITB, but both genre and execution limit its appeal.

[Fyre]

@Matt You're saying things like 'reward' and 'payoff' as if you earned those victories in FTL after the 200th hour, you were going through the motions which is fine to decompress but I lost interest in FTL when I knew every single choice I was going to make before the run even started (don't dock with the space station on fire, don't pick up the raving lunatic, don't fight the giant ants, do get burst laser 2, cloaking and an ion bomb and fight the same damn boss for the 50th time.)

[[SG] Wepwawet]

just a heads up posts like yours OP will get it locked and most likely deleted. has happened to a few people now (including me)

[pixel_rice_bowl]

Originally posted by Fyre:

@Matt You're saying things like 'reward' and 'payoff' as if you earned those victories in FTL after the 200th hour, you were going through the motions which is fine to decompress but I lost interest in FTL when I knew every single choice I was going to make before the run even started (don't dock with the space station on fire, don't pick up the raving lunatic, don't fight the giant ants, do get burst laser 2, cloaking and an ion bomb and fight the same damn boss for the 50th time.)

I agree that the story events became highly predictable after a certain point. And the final boss of FTL was one of the weakest points of the game (just, ugh).

My long term enjoyment came from (a) learning to play all the ship types and (b) the unpredictable nature of each ship engagement.

(I'm curious about the events you listed. With the right systems and/or crew, you could have neutral or positive outcomes for each. I don't know if you avoided them simply to mitigate risk or because you think they always had the same outcome.)

[Fyre]

Originally posted by Matt:

Originally posted by Fyre:

@Matt You're saying things like 'reward' and 'payoff' as if you earned those victories in FTL after the 200th hour, you were going through the motions which is fine to decompress but I lost interest in FTL when I knew every single choice I was going to make before the run even started (don't dock with the space station on fire, don't pick up the raving lunatic, don't fight the giant ants, do get burst laser 2, cloaking and an ion bomb and fight the same damn boss for the 50th time.)

I agree that the story events became highly predictable after a certain point. And the final boss of FTL was one of the weakest points of the game (just, ugh).

My long term enjoyment came from (a) learning to play all the ship types and (b) the unpredictable nature of each ship engagement.

(I'm curious about the events you listed. With the right systems and/or crew, you could have neutral or positive outcomes for each. I don't know if you avoided them simply to mitigate risk or because you think they always had the same outcome.)

I know there are blue options for those events, and when I say avoid I mean those events have a chance of killing a crew member which isn't worth the reward in almost any circumstance. I couldn't help myself but use what I figured were the best ships (mantis b, crystal, kestral, fed) so it probably got same-er faster. One of my favorite parts of this game that I haven't even really used yet is the option to customize your team, that's gonna really make me sink a lot of hours.

[Scrubwave]

Originally posted by info:

stop trying to FTL everything up.

The game plays nothing like FTL.

[Azathoth]

This is a puzzle game with some progression elements; that might help how the game is perceived. Honestly, that's the biggest thing that will hold this game back; people will want to draw comparisons with FTL (for obvious reasons) but these games are nothing alike. That's the bad thing about casting a big shadow, you're going to get everything compared to it.

[Herold]

Originally posted by Scrubwave:

The game plays nothing like FTL.

There's a lot of similarities, though. Less exploring, but same sense of progression.
I find it less random, since I have more control over the outcome. Usually I fail because I missed something and it's all on me. I love it :D

[itssirtou]

The final level feels like a letdown. The final boss doesn't even have a proper boss..

[Scrubwave]

Originally posted by itssirtou:

The final boss doesn't even have a proper boss..

:thonking:

[junkevil]

As someone who can beat FTL on hard consistently, I find this game to be incredibly similar to it in many ways, just not gameplay. I also think I'll be spending quite a bit of time on this one because it's fun.

The final boss is a huge letdown though, I wouldn't argue that.

[JokingJames2]

The final level, pilot exp and leveling, and grid defense all feel incomplete. The game is still pretty fun as it is, but if you told me this was an Early Access title I would believe it.

[Rogue Vagabond]

I personally disagree wholeheartedly. I think the balance of the game is a major part of why it's so short and sweet and vice versa. If you play your cards right the game is easily beatable, if it was longer it would be much more difficult to balance the difficulty. I'm honesly amazed it's as well balanced as it is. I think the length of the game is the way it is because if it was longer or shorter it would decrease how well the balance works.

Would I like to player a larger version of Into the Breach, yea definitely. I love what I've played of the game so far. But I am so far from calling it a demo that it almost seems silly to say that. It's a very well balanced and polished game that has enough content to keep you coming back for a while. Maybe not as long as other games, like FTL for example, but it isn't too short or long. I think saying a game is a demo implies it's incomplete, but Into the Breach is one of the most complete games I've seen in an incredibly long time.

I think wanting more is just simply a sign that the game is incredible. NOT necesarilly because it's more like a demo than it is a fully fleshed game. But that's just my two cents.