2h deals way more damage than 1h+offhand despite lower stats

[Holonaut]

Hi, on my cleric I go purely for spell damage.

By equipping a wand + orb I can get around 60 spell damage, while a 2h hammer gives me 40.

However, all my spells do way more damage with the hammer. I can't find any stat that would indicate this behavior.

Is there some game rules that says 2h intrinsically does 100% more damage, regardless of stats?

[Zvenpai]

I have the same issue with my wizard and i think its because spells scale off the "Damage" stat. For me i have 64 damage on 1h and 99 on 2h. Despite having more spellpower and other boni from the offhand + mainhand i also seem to be hitting way harder with my 2h staff.

[Humphrey]

Cleric doesnt have class bonusses for using orbs. But he has attack speed ones for using shields. Also, imo, for Cleric, who is basically left-click spam attaker you need a one-hand+shield and additional attack speed and crit ratio, while for a mage, who is ability spammer, you may need a 2h weapon for better ability scaling

[Grim@FU_BARRACUDA]

Ha ha ha .... i realised that recently (just played for 5 hours or so). I was runing around with my cleric trying to get as much spell damage as possible and then i found that orb and thought "hey its surely a holy orb ...". Then a half hour later i found this insane 2h hammer with ice damage on it and i thought lets try it for fun. I first tryed normal meele attack wich was useless and then the smite and bro was i surprised that it does at least 5x more damage then my hammer orb combo xD. Im runnng around with it now the last few hours and killing everything in no time. I will use it till i find a proper shield 1h hammer combo or a better 2h hammer ;-)

There is another funny thing as cleric, you can even cast smite with a crossbow and it really does more damage then with hammer orb combo (in my case), very strange xD

[Zee_]

Check your character sheet, it will display any current class weapon bonuses. 1h +shield gives you faster attack speeds with a minor damage bonus, while 2h hammer gives a large damage bonus. Overall the dps is about the same, with 1h+shield having a slight dps bonus (especially when using a dagger because it's faster than other 1h weapons but does the same damage), which is why I use a 2h hammer for general combat but switch to dagger and shield for bosses.

It should be noted that clerics get bonuses for 2h hammer, 1h hammer, dagger, clubs and shield for weapon bonuses, using a 1h sword or axe with a shield will result in no attack speed or damage bonus, as will using an orb in the offhand.

[Grim@FU_BARRACUDA]

Originally posted by Zee_:

Check your character sheet, it will display any current class weapon bonuses. 1h +shield gives you faster attack speeds with a minor damage bonus, while 2h hammer gives a large damage bonus. Overall the dps is about the same, with 1h+shield having a slight dps bonus (especially when using a dagger because it's faster than other 1h weapons but does the same damage), which is why I use a 2h hammer for general combat but switch to dagger and shield for bosses.

It should be noted that clerics get bonuses for 2h hammer, 1h hammer, dagger, clubs and shield for weapon bonuses, using a 1h sword or axe with a shield will result in no attack speed or damage bonus, as will using an orb in the offhand.

Yeah normaly i check character sheet, but this game gave me the impression that it does not have any important infos anyways, a big mistake. In other words i didnt had that much trust in the game that there was more then spam smite for hours ha ha ha xD

(Im just kidding, the game is fun, espacially later on when you get more abilitys, new dungeons and enemys)

Peace

[Holonaut]

Just found out if you go into Menu -> Journal -> Compendium, it lists all the class bonuses. Apparently there are some for armor too https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1933751797199603911/43D12954C1BB6D953E70EA28D6E5BF6E55FA58D3/

If I equip a wand + shield I get the "Pious" bonus which is +15% spell damage, +15% attack speed and +15% armor. With a 2h hammer I get +25% spell damage and -5% armor.

But even then, the 2 handed hammer still deals massively more damage per spell although it should just do measly 10% more than the wand+shield combo. (115% vs 125%)

It's almost as if the intrinsic attack speed of a weapon is taken as a negative multiplier for base damage. Which is fine for balancing purposes, but still the numbers given to us don't add up

[thegeodemon]

Originally posted by Holonaut:

Just found out if you go into Menu -> Journal -> Compendium, it lists all the class bonuses. Apparently there are some for armor too https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1933751797199603911/43D12954C1BB6D953E70EA28D6E5BF6E55FA58D3/

If I equip a wand + shield I get the "Pious" bonus which is +15% spell damage, +15% attack speed and +15% armor. With a 2h hammer I get +25% spell damage and -5% armor.

But even then, the 2 handed hammer still deals massively more damage per spell although it should just do measly 10% more than the wand+shield combo. (115% vs 125%)

It's almost as if the intrinsic attack speed of a weapon is taken as a negative multiplier for base damage. Which is fine for balancing purposes, but still the numbers given to us don't add up

what matters is its base damage stat. 2 handers always have way higher.
So if a weapon has 50 damage, and your skill says 450%, that skill does 225 damage.
That 225 damage gets a bonus from spellpower and elemental bonuses, then reduced by enemy armor.

Basically if a hammer has 20 damage and a 2 hand hammer has 35- that means your skills are going to do 50% more damage with the 2 hander, even if your spell power is a little lower.

[Nobbler]

Originally posted by Holonaut:

Is there some game rules that says 2h intrinsically does 100% more damage, regardless of stats?

There is not a visible, compiled stat.

The attack speed is the determining factor. With 2H your auto attacks are slower, and thus deal more damage. This is usually done for DpS balance, looking at the attack power of the weapon. 2H weapons usually do 1.5 X Damage (compared to 1H) which is on balance with the dual wield which off-hand usually does 0.5, main hand does 1.0 (totalling 1.5 X damage).

The damage number that we see is base damage. Sometimes these are balanced by 'hit %' rather than 'base damage X attack speed' but the final output is always considered as DpS, whether it is based on how much damage over time or (#hits x damage) / time.

In conclusion, what we don't see is 'attack speed' or 'DpS' in our item tooltips. As others have mentioned, our spell-caster attacks are based on the raw damage stat, just like melee. So as a wizard, my basic 2H staff attack (fireball) is a slower attack sequence but deals 1.5X damage (compared to wand). The wand will shoot more fireballs over a similar period of time.

I have not calculated the hit% to see if the DpS is similar over time. Would need to run a damage meter, for probably 1,000 seconds of constant attacks on the same target, or compile many iterations of damage outputs against the same enemy on a dungeon reset.

Anyway, because of the cooldowns on abilities take longer than the attack speed delay on a 2H, the 'attack speed' of the 2H weapons is inconsequential to abilities with cooldowns. Thus, 2H ability spam has a superior damage output over 1H ability spam, given a similar cooldown to wands using the same ability, because of the base damage.

There might be future developments where cooldowns are scaled by the attack speed of the equipped weapon, but I am not speaking for the studio. This is just me, some random dude, speculating.

Cheers.