Dual Wielding

[Evangeline]

So Zaar was a bit too weak for my liking so I did some investigating and discovered I didn't have a weapon selected for off-hand. Ok good find, but how does dual wielding actually work?

Currently I'm getting a -65 negative bonus from items and skills, which makes the off-hand damage 0. I've tried everything I can think of but I can't get rid of this negative "bonus".

Is this how it's supposed to work? Am I missing something or is this a bug?

[Iorveth]

Just to try to understand what could be the issue,what'r your Zaar's stats atm ?

[Evangeline]

https://ibb.co/fWc829

[Iorveth]

I guess you've already tried to remove both of his weapons and/or switch them,am I right ?

[Evangeline]

Yes, I removed everything, no luck. So is this not expected behaviour? His DPS is actually decent, on par with the Ironclad Zombie, which made me think maybe I'm missing something.

In practice though, the Ironclad zombie kicks ass , Zaar I can't use him cause he's terrible.

[Iorveth]

Yep the Ironclad zombe is a walking fortress^
and later on you can pull out some sick combos with him =)

Zaar,I've never used him regularly aside from switch the wolf in just to
to advance/trigger some quests.
So I think I can't be of any help,sorry.

[RaVmAsTeR]

I play on Extreme and Zaar isn't bad. He is good in short fights and against weaker enemies which can be killed with slain skill. Against bosses he can die too fast and he should be used just when his cooldowns and mana are avaible ofc with stuns. I have added to him atributes and talents based on strenght. Low mana skills should be better than those more costly. I'm using first axes, rage? This with life drain and stun axe. Weapons shouldn't be a problem as there are good items for him.

[[= GF =] Slnecnica]

Originally posted by Evangeline:

So Zaar was a bit too weak for my liking so I did some investigating and discovered I didn't have a weapon selected for off-hand. Ok good find, but how does dual wielding actually work?

Currently I'm getting a -65 negative bonus from items and skills, which makes the off-hand damage 0. I've tried everything I can think of but I can't get rid of this negative "bonus".

Is this how it's supposed to work? Am I missing something or is this a bug?

Can you please provide us with the saves so we can check your calculations? I assume some item is doing this but we need to identify which item/property breaks the formula :)

Much appreciated!

[Apollyon. Black Edition.]

Anyway Carissa is strongest character here. Dominate melee, strong abilities and powerfull builds with shield and deffensive skills. I like her much to use, cause she is most usefull and powerfull character after Devourer himself.

[mentant]

Carissa is a beast. Throw on Soul Rend, Max Adrenaline (Kalig playthrough) and Balance and she scythes through everything. Bosses/high level monsters drop like flies.

[DeadBeat]

I've got the same issue of double zeros on the off hand.

[Enfys Ellezard]

I actually find Zaar to be quite strong. I agree that Dual Wield damage might be bugged. This is because Off-hand attack doesn't seem to be using off-hand damage. The off-hand is actually using your main hand for damage so don't worry about the double 0-0.

This is actually a positive bug for you because you only need to focus on high base damage on your main hand to deal the maximum physical damage. The attack speed, crit chance, enhancement and so on are still applied to the calculation. This will be the reason why Zaar can easily outdamage Carissa as game progresses. His off-hand is considered to be a weapon, not a shield, meaning you can get twice as much offensive enhancement from your 2 weapons instead of weapon+shield.

So if you want to deal some damage with Zaar, just slap his off-hand with a crit chance, attack speed and a bunch of elemental or crit damage enhanced fast weapon of different attack type (So you can deal both slash and blunt at the same time). This way, you swing much faster while having higher crit rate, damage and a bunch of elemental damage on every hit.

Throw in Soul rend at the start followed by his Berserk and you will melt stuff left and right while sustaining back. This is also a good healing option if you freeze the enemy first. Sure the -10% crit chance will hurt you at first but after you start having higher crit number and using +crit chance essence.

[Apollyon. Black Edition.]

Originally posted by Enfys Ellezard:

I actually find Zaar to be quite strong. I agree that Dual Wield damage might be bugged. This is because Off-hand attack doesn't seem to be using off-hand damage. The off-hand is actually using your main hand for damage so don't worry about the double 0-0.

This is actually a positive bug for you because you only need to focus on high base damage on your main hand to deal the maximum physical damage. The attack speed, crit chance, enhancement and so on are still applied to the calculation. This will be the reason why Zaar can easily outdamage Carissa as game progresses. His off-hand is considered to be a weapon, not a shield, meaning you can get twice as much offensive enhancement from your 2 weapons instead of weapon+shield.

So if you want to deal some damage with Zaar, just slap his off-hand with a crit chance, attack speed and a bunch of elemental or crit damage enhanced fast weapon of different attack type (So you can deal both slash and blunt at the same time). This way, you swing much faster while having higher crit rate, damage and a bunch of elemental damage on every hit.

Throw in Soul rend at the start followed by his Berserk and you will melt stuff left and right while sustaining back. This is also a good healing option if you freeze the enemy first. Sure the -10% crit chance will hurt you at first but after you start having higher crit number and using +crit chance essence.

No way Zaar > Carissa. Absolutely no way. He has no chance to stand against Mara in the end as Carissa do. Also she has much more powerfull skills than Zaar. BUT I found him much fun to play and usefull in mid-game stage in Taimuria, and it's 3rd strongest character in-game, imho. Maybe I'm wrong, I still didn't played as Kalig, maybe he has good skills too, also my current Jasker seems strong, but a bit more tactical than Evia when I played.

About my Evia playthrough - from the begining of Book 2 and untill the end of game I think this characters is strongest: 1. Carissa 2. Urshak 3. Zaar. I'm not talking about Devourer or\and Evia\Jasker\Kalig cause we have no choice to dont choose them or anything. But overall I think the best is 1. Carissa 2. Devourer 3. Urshak.

Zaar has awesome skills for fast-damage. But he is not tanky and seems bad for standing vs enemies for a long time. He is a Taimurian - most usefull tactics which they using looks like "attack and run and repeat". And he doing pretty well with that.

[Enfys Ellezard]

Originally posted by Apollyon:

No way Zaar > Carissa. Absolutely no way. He has no chance to stand against Mara in the end as Carissa do. Also she has much more powerfull skills than Zaar. BUT I found him much fun to play and usefull in mid-game stage in Taimuria, and it's 3rd strongest character in-game, imho. Maybe I'm wrong, I still didn't played as Kalig, maybe he has good skills too, also my current Jasker seems strong, but a bit more tactical than Evia when I played.

About my Evia playthrough - from the begining of Book 2 and untill the end of game I think this characters is strongest: 1. Carissa 2. Urshak 3. Zaar. I'm not talking about Devourer or\and Evia\Jasker\Kalig cause we have no choice to dont choose them or anything. But overall I think the best is 1. Carissa 2. Devourer 3. Urshak.

Zaar has awesome skills for fast-damage. But he is not tanky and seems bad for standing vs enemies for a long time. He is a Taimurian - most usefull tactics which they using looks like "attack and run and repeat". And he doing pretty well with that.

Zaar having double stacking weapon enhancement and being able to go into ranged mode on demand already gives him enough tool to always deal damage. The 50% lifesteal from berserk easily offset the extra damage amp and with double enhancement, it's easy to fit +Crit Lifesteal to his gears while having good crit rate.

It also doesn't help Carissa is more of a selfish solo type. Zaar berserk actually works with Teammate while Carissa doesn't (Despite what the tool tip says). This means that in cases you really need ranged damage and don't want to use Zaar throwing axe (for the double enhancement benefit), you can just soul rend -> Zaar buff -> swap to Jasker and watch him rapid fire the bosses for really great damage to force the next stage.

Zaar berserk + Soul rend combination is pretty much the game breaking buff combo that works with any party and even better with a bunch of on-hits. You can even apply them on top of Carissa attack speed buff to break it even further if you want.

There really isn't much to compare between characters in this game outside boss DPS though. We do have to admit that if the enemy isn't lightning or ice immune, Sebekan link -> AoE spell will just trivialize it with how much the damage gets boosted when the AoE gets shared 5-7 times.

[Evangeline]

Thanks for your insights guys, I'll give Zaar another try :)

I find it really easy to get stuck using the same characters and strategies/combos over and over, so I guess I haven't really given Zaar a fair shot - I didn't even know the Berserk heals.. smh. I've only used him a few times and he died really quickly and didn't seem to do any real damage (which led me to discover this bug).


@Enfys Ellezard - I think you're right, it's using the main hand for damage instead of the off-hand. I saw it when equipping weapons too but didn't realise, the comparison with the current off-hand weapon was totally wrong. Thanks a lot for your strategy insights, really helpful.


@Slnecnica - thanks for your reply. I'm away from my PC for about a week though, if someone else can send you a save in the meantime that would be great. +@rjb388

However, it would seem that the issue is not item related, but that it's using the main hand for damage, so basically the off-hand weapon is getting ignored and the main hand weapon is used instead.

Also, did you guys forget to push 1.12 to GoG? :(

[Enfys Ellezard]

Originally posted by Evangeline:

Thanks for your insights guys, I'll give Zaar another try :)

I find it really easy to get stuck using the same characters and strategies/combos over and over, so I guess I haven't really given Zaar a fair shot - I didn't even know the Berserk heals.. smh. I've only used him a few times and he died really quickly and didn't seem to do any real damage (which led me to discover this bug).


@Enfys Ellezard - I think you're right, it's using the main hand for damage instead of the off-hand. I saw it when equipping weapons too but didn't realise, the comparison with the current off-hand weapon was totally wrong. Thanks a lot for your strategy insights, really helpful.


@Slnecnica - thanks for your reply. I'm away from my PC for about a week though, if someone else can send you a save in the meantime that would be great. +@rjb388

However, it would seem that the issue is not item related, but that it's using the main hand for damage, so basically the off-hand weapon is getting ignored and the main hand weapon is used instead.

Also, did you guys forget to push 1.12 to GoG? :(

You're not wrong to assume he's weak at first. First 10-12 levels, it's far easier to dominate using skills and just wipe enemies. Zaar skills are quite weak outside the powerful ones that are insanely powerful and that he really need item to start scaling into the game. I end up using only his stun axe throw and Berserk when I play as him because those two are good enough to kill all the miniboss/boss and you will run out of mana anyway.

You really just have to be careful with the bosses and berserk because of the +60% damage receive debuff but once you reach that 50% lifesteal mark, you really just outheal majority of the damage with some crit items so you can still crit often with berserk active.