Will there be support for 144 hz monitors?

[Para]

Just asking because in Sonic CD (steam release) the game would way go too fast if your montor was running 144hz. Only solution to that was to manually limit it each time you started the game. I hope this won't be the case in Mania.

[CyberKevin]

I think the game will be stuck at 60fps, even on 120/144hz monitor :/

[Meseki]

Originally posted by CyberKevin:

I think the game will be stuck at 60fps, even on 120/144hz monitor :/

As a 2D platformer that has a significant focus on momentum with slopes (and has time attacking as a feature), a locked game logic FPS is for the better (especially with the amount of Sonic games with significant terrain/physics glitches), and I would not be surprised if interpolating display frames between game logic frames would end up awkward at times.

Based on what they said, the Sonic CD port does not properly limit itself to 60 FPS on 144hz monitors, so being locked to 60 FPS on such a monitor is an improvement.

[468528456]

There is this thing called Delta time, means higher framerates are pointless because things only update at 60fps despite what the framerate is.

144hz monitors are a non-issue scam in games. They do prevent motion blur in movies though.

[Anim8.r]

Apparently taxman from Sonic Retro forums confirmed Sonic Mania's engine has support for high refresh rates and also support for dinput.

Hopefully that means can run at high frame rates and not that it works on high frame rate monitors.

Originally posted by 468528456:

144hz monitors are a non-issue scam in games. They do prevent motion blur in movies though.

? High framerate monitors do nothing to prevent motion blur in movies. Movies run at 24fps for the most part which means there is 41.67ms of pixel persistent. (disgrarding the motion blur inherent in the frames caused by the cameras exposure time) This is due to the way sample and hold screens work.

The only way to reduce it is either by using interpolation(adding in new frames), strobing or using BFI (black frame insertion).

In the case of games a higher frame rate will decrease pixel persistence resulting in less motion blur, assuming the response times can keep up with the refresh rate.

60fps = 16.67ms of persistance
120fps = 8.33ms of persistance
240fps = 4.16ms of persistance

See image below of the differance it makes 60hz/fps vs 120hz/fps vs 240fps/hz
http://www.blurbusters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/motion_blur_from_persistence.png

Heres a linus video explaining it in simple terms:

Pixel Persistence & Motion Blur as Fast As Possible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqgKQgzX7Sg

[michL57]

468528456 please dont say anything if you have no clue, i bet you dont have played yourself on 100hz+. i see the difference in the first seconds if a game doesnt support my monitor range..

would be really sad if the game only supports 60fps, thats how its advertised on the store. sonic generations back then had only 60fps too... but there was some glitch around to fix this..

anyways if the reviews are good i will buy it, but i love playing games like this on 144fps/hz :/

[Jagger]

Originally posted by 468528456:

There is this thing called Delta time, means higher framerates are pointless because things only update at 60fps despite what the framerate is.

144hz monitors are a non-issue scam in games. They do prevent motion blur in movies though.

Yeah, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. The logic can be set to run at whatever, 60 ticks per second, 120, 144, but it's unrelated because the graphics can be driven at a higher framerate. If the logic tells an object to move to the right 100 units, you see an updated position every 16.67ms. (on 60fps) So if it's moving at 10 units per second, you'll see 600 position updates, whereas on 144fps, you'll see 1440 updates, which is more intermediate frames, leading to it looking smoother.

[Larkhainan]

It's nice to see some refresh rate trolling to go with the sonic trolling elsewhere in the forum. Variety is nice.

[Invertex]

Originally posted by 468528456:

There is this thing called Delta time, means higher framerates are pointless because things only update at 60fps despite what the framerate is.

144hz monitors are a non-issue scam in games. They do prevent motion blur in movies though.

I'm guessing you opened Unity once and suddenly thought you knew a lot about game development. Delta time is VARIABLE, it is the time the previous frame took to process, allowing you to use that as a scaling value for your current frame's calculations, ensuring that movement does not speed-up or slow-down if the framerate increase/decreases. So in fact, deltaTime is exactly why 144hz monitors work for most games.

[Xenial Jesse]

You're crazy if you think 144Hz does nothing for games.

I wasn't even expecting it but the moment I plugged in my new screen and moved the mouse, instantly amazed. It was immediately noticeable enough for me to call housemates over to see, and that's just the cursor. Moving a whole window made my brain associate it with moving paper.

But when you run a game that sits solid at 144Hz... dear Lord.

The idea of Sonic Mania doing this on PC has me giddy. That would be legitimate pinnacle of classic Sonic play.

[Aemony]

No support for framerates above 60 FPS is a bit sad. Sonic is a ridiculously awesome game in motion, and the higher the framerate the smoother the motion.

For Sonic Mania in particular, 120 FPS running on a 144 Hz G-Sync monitor (meaning the refresh rate is locked to 120 Hz) would be smooth as butter. The 3D bonus levels would benefit the most, but even the 2D levels would be a lot smoother in all of the transitions.

[468528456]

Looks like a bunch of people watched some youtuber sell the 144Hz myth to them.

Pitiful. And no, stuff doesn't look better at higher framerates. Once you hit 60fps, that's it. Any more is merely a placebo effect.

[Aemony]

Originally posted by 468528456:

Looks like a bunch of people watched some youtuber sell the 144Hz myth to them.

Pitiful. And no, stuff doesn't look better at higher framerates. Once you hit 60fps, that's it. Any more is merely a placebo effect.

That's probably the most ignorant statement I've read today. You can quickly notice the difference of 120 Hz and 60 Hz just by moving a window around in Windows and between two monitors, one being 60 Hz and the other 120 Hz.

Regardless of what you think, human eyes don't actually capture the world around us in "frames per seconds."

[Red]

Originally posted by Aemony:

For Sonic Mania in particular, 120 FPS running on a 144 Hz G-Sync monitor (meaning the refresh rate is locked to 120 Hz) would be smooth as butter. The 3D bonus levels would benefit the most, but even the 2D levels would be a lot smoother in all of the transitions.

This is pretty much the expected result. The 3D stages will definitely benefit from a higher framerate but the core game itself is really not going to be that different.

The camera is the only thing that's going to be smoother, and it's a diminishing result past 60 FPS in a 2D game, which is why most 2D game devs don't really care that much about going past 60 to begin with (And delta time is not a catch all fix all thing, it can cause problems too depending on how the game is coded like).

[Aemony]

Originally posted by Red:

Originally posted by Aemony:

For Sonic Mania in particular, 120 FPS running on a 144 Hz G-Sync monitor (meaning the refresh rate is locked to 120 Hz) would be smooth as butter. The 3D bonus levels would benefit the most, but even the 2D levels would be a lot smoother in all of the transitions.

This is pretty much the expected result. The 3D stages will definitely benefit from a higher framerate but the core game itself is really not going to be that different.

The camera is the only thing that's going to be smoother, and it's a diminishing result past 60 FPS in a 2D game, which is why most 2D game devs don't really care that much about going past 60 to begin with (And delta time is not a catch all fix all thing, it can cause problems too depending on how the game is coded like).

Well, the camera is why we do it, after all. Sonic is a game often in high motion, and you're going to notice the difference if you actually focus on the surroundings around Sonic while he spins quickly past obstacles and stuff.

Hell, I even played Hollow Knight in 100 Hz/FPS (the animations are keyed to 50 FPS, so 120 FPS can introduce some animation stutter at times) and even that was smoother than when I played on 60 Hz/FPS. And it's a slow 2D game as well.

[Red]

Originally posted by Aemony:

Hell, I even played Hollow Knight in 100 Hz/FPS (the animations are keyed to 50 FPS, so 120 FPS can introduce some animation stutter at times) and even that was smoother than when I played on 60 Hz/FPS. And it's a slow 2D game as well.

Yeah well... The animations being keyed at 50 FPS is kinda why a 100 FPS cap is helpful there. Sonic Mania doesn't have that advantage though.

Still, every bit helps when it comes to camera smoothness. I do wonder if Sonic Mania will have no FPS cap at all (Although I bet it's just going to have a 60 FPS cap).