Escaton judgement

[D34D]

I'm curious what escalation judgment really is—is it an explosion of elements or something else?

[ominumi]

Gameplay wise or lorewise? To me it's an expansion of store up energy. Alatreon can't fully control all the elements. It needs to release those conflicting element or else it'll explode instead.

[Kackstift]

the damage is raw and cannot be reduced by armor, ressistance or perks..
you will get a certain amount of raw damage per tick.

[AI]

Originally posted by ominumi:

Gameplay wise or lorewise? To me it's an expansion of store up energy. Alatreon can't fully control all the elements. It needs to release those conflicting element or else it'll explode instead.

Interesting, so it's something like reverse deviljho where deviljho needs to always eat while alatreon need to always expend his energy?

[ᔑᓭ∴ᔑリ⊣]

obviously he's judging you so harshly that you drop dead, its in the name after all

but for real it probably is an explosion of stored energy, thats in line with him releasing the smaller explosion effect when you weaken it too.

dragon element is a bit of a mystery in the lore that isnt fully understood, i wouldnt be surprised if it was a source of energy so to speak and the reason he gets charged up with power so much, same for other super powerful monsters like jho and fatalis
its my personal headcanon that dragon element flows through the blood of these monsters (elders, jho and ebony odoggo) causing pain and an influx of energy and thats why they are so much more powerful and aggressive than other monsters

[ominumi]

Originally posted by AI:

Originally posted by ominumi:

Gameplay wise or lorewise? To me it's an expansion of store up energy. Alatreon can't fully control all the elements. It needs to release those conflicting element or else it'll explode instead.

Interesting, so it's something like reverse deviljho where deviljho needs to always eat while alatreon need to always expend his energy?

A lot of the fanfics correlate to the same idea. I think it started from a monster hunter book somewhere. World tease more on the idea.

[D34D]

Originally posted by ᔑᓭ∴ᔑリ⊣:

obviously he's judging you so harshly that you drop dead, its in the name after all

but for real it probably is an explosion of stored energy, thats in line with him releasing the smaller explosion effect when you weaken it too.

dragon element is a bit of a mystery in the lore that isnt fully understood, i wouldnt be surprised if it was a source of energy so to speak and the reason he gets charged up with power so much, same for other super powerful monsters like jho and fatalis
its my personal headcanon that dragon element flows through the blood of these monsters (elders, jho and ebony odoggo) causing pain and an influx of energy and thats why they are so much more powerful and aggressive than other monsters

Huh... interesting

[Greb]

I never had a headcanon about it until now but I'm going to just assume it's some taff to do with the arena he's in, some residual bioenergy or lingering Jiivian radiation that reacts dangerously to Alatreon and his unstable personality and energy field. Yeah, yeah that's it.

He's just going insane because his scales were all backwards (it only takes one scale to grow backwards usually) and so his bioenergy is unstable. Sure, I'll go with that.

I don't think he had the nova in other games, I didn't see him use it in MHGU anyway (he was a way slicker fight in that game, really fun openings, whacking his head as he turned around, predictable like) so I guess we can blame Zorah and Xeno'Jiiva for their weird whatever bioenergy nexus point shenanigans that caused Alatreon, already an unstable wreck, to just began radiating death from time to time, as his physical condition is reduced.

It feels less like he just can't contain it and more that he's doing it on purpose though. It doesn't seem to harm him, and it's not a time based thing it's a damage based thing, right? Plus it can be weakened, which makes no sense if it was like a reactor going supercritical every now and then, right? If anything, with Alatreon being half-pummelled you'd think he'd radiate and leak even more energy if it was like that. It's probably him having excess, topped off energy reserves than usual thanks to the location, and him just unleashing it in desperation as you mess him up.

Perhaps it's a big wave outwards instead of a focused blast because he's not used to it yet. Good thing we killed him, otherwise he might have ended up gaining access to a bioenhanced gamma ray of death or something.

I dunno. Never really thought about it until now.

[JPM岩]

It's just pure elemental energy. Alatreon doesn't have perfect control over all the elements, hence why it switches forms, and switch forms creates an excess of energy that needs to be dispelled. Has nothing to do with Safi'jiiva or anything else. Alatreon is just like that.

[Greb]

Originally posted by JPM岩:

Has nothing to do with Safi'jiiva or anything else. Alatreon is just like that.

Did he have access to the Escaton Judgement move in other titles? If he didn't, then there's at least a chance that him hanging around where bioenergy was plentiful and chaotic (which is why Xeno / Safi is there in the first place, right?) is why he's suddenly able to radiate power outwards. Affecting him, etc.

It'd be like if Vaal Hazaak's presence ended up turning Deviljho into Savage Deviljho due to Vaal sucking away his lifeforce and putting him into starvation mode. I mean, I'm not saying that's the root cause of Savage Deviljho because it's not, but I'm saying...it's a possible. Also a shame we never saw some...I dunno, Ravaged Deviljho variant that was turned insane because of Vaal. Like Aberrant Deviljho, only cooler.

[ᔑᓭ∴ᔑリ⊣]

Originally posted by Greb:

I never had a headcanon about it until now but I'm going to just assume it's some taff to do with the arena he's in, some residual bioenergy or lingering Jiivian radiation that reacts dangerously to Alatreon and his unstable personality and energy field. Yeah, yeah that's it.

(I re-read your comment after i wrote this and realised youre basically saying the same thing lol oh well)

actually you could say the confluence of fates / the glowy magic crystals, whatever its called is giving him more energy if not safi itself, the whole story of MHW is that this is where monsters (including powerful elder dragons) come to die and all their bioenergy is concentrated there due to xeno succing it up

you have a good point with safi, i forgot about him lol, safi draws in the energy too to charge himself so theres probably a lot concentrated in this environment still even with him dead

I think its a bit too far though, it just feels like another new element-related mechanic the devs added to highlight his elemental focus & instability and thats it, nothing too deep about it
Also is it not a time thing? I didnt think people could just idle in his fight and he would never do the nova, he always seems to do it around the same time to me even if you do worse, tho i dont pay that much attention to the clock in the heat of the moment

this alatreon's fight is so much better than older games, but i really do wish they didnt change him quite so much, his wings are so ugly Basic Dragon style now instead of old kushala-esque unique and he stands like Basic Dragon now too instead of holding his head high like the prideful monster he should be, two things that really made him unique :/

He had a funny fire tornado in tri too which shouldve came back.. i understand why that one didnt though lol.. but fire tornadoes are so cool...
https://youtu.be/fFes8q41mRI?si=-J2eex9U8j9cBpWz

[Greb]

Yeah I can't remember much at all anymore lol. I remember Worlds story was about some place where there's a lot of bioenergy yeah, and Zorah wanted to go and die there but that would have had potentially cataclysmic results with all of that energy being released...and then we discover some giant spectral dragon newborn in a cocoon in the very center, I actually can't remember if it turned out that Xeno'Jiiva was the energy source or if he was just feeding off of it.

I actually assumed that the arena we fight Safi'Jiiva in is the same arena as where we fight Xeno'Jiiva but I don't have any evidence to back that up, just if it's saturated in energy too and there's loads of skin from shedding I think, I mean maybe Xeno'Jiiva would have fledged the original nest by now but, two concentrated points of energy? Seems unlikely. Not impossible though.

It's not a hill I'm going to die on or anything lol I was just putting forth a random idea. Ecology is cool but with these Dragon Element ??? Black Dragon types that defy classification then it's probably impossible to every truly figure 'em out anyway.

I have no idea if it's a time based thing, I thought it was a DPS check. You had to deal a % of elemental damage in X% of health damage, and if you did then the nova wave was survivable, if not then it kills you. Again it has been a long time since I played so I can't be sure, maybe it does happen every X minutes though. Or maybe it's a bit of both?

Originally posted by ᔑᓭ∴ᔑリ⊣:

i really do wish they didnt change him quite so much, his wings are so ugly Basic Dragon style now instead of old kushala-esque unique and he stands like Basic Dragon now too instead of holding his head high like the prideful monster he should be, two things that really made him unique :/

Yeah, my friend said as much when we fought him in MHGU. Alatreon in World is very clean, quite tight hitboxes, maybe too tight in some cases as I feel like the game is a tad generous, but not complaining. Whereas World felt like a bit of a mosh pit and you spend some time hitting his arms, in GU from memory Alatreon had these exploitable and clean openings where you could bonk his head as he turned around after doing a dive or a bite, I don't actually remember. There seemed like a lot of openings and things to fight him..

..never beat him, though. We were sort of moving through the game too fast without taking the time to grind useful things, mostly as tourists. So a lot of stuff was probably made more difficult just because of that, lol. I feel like we could have taken him if we actually had proper gear and consumables. Still, he was a nice fight, is one thing I remember.

The head thing is interesting to me because I remember before I fought Alatreon in World, my friend talked about how if I'm able to stay on his head for the whole fight, as a Hammer user, I'd be "up there" with the best of them, and I found it fairly easy to hit his head so I didn't understand his point, not until I fought him in GU anyway. Head held high, only putting it down briefly when turning etc. Aloof!

Fire tornado! A shame that it's gone, I guess Kushala Daora stole it for his secret attack this time around

[AI]

Originally posted by Greb:

I actually assumed that the arena we fight Safi'Jiiva in is the same arena as where we fight Xeno'Jiiva but I don't have any evidence to back that up, just if it's saturated in energy too and there's loads of skin from shedding I think, I mean maybe Xeno'Jiiva would have fledged the original nest by now but, two concentrated points of energy? Seems unlikely. Not impossible though.

Iirc, the arena where we fight safi'jiva is a different arena, we fight xeno jiva in elder recess where zorah magdaros headed to, while safi'jiva is found in guiding lands where mysteriously, somehow every ecosystem and weather can exist at the same time beside each other

It's also the area where we fight alatreon after we repel/defeat safi'jiva iirc, cause alatreon was burning the dead skin from safi's shedding cycle

[Greb]

Oh it's the Grinding Lands? I see. Guiding Lands is where Zorah ended up dying in the end after being repelled, right? His body became a GECK or something and created the lands around him in record time (although no telling how much time passed between the events of World and Iceborne) - at least that's how I see it. It's possible that the Guiding Lands is just made from another Zorah entirely.

Hmm, is it obvious that the Safi arena is in the Guiding Lands? I might have overlooked that key detail, I figured we went back to the Recess and stuff to handle that quest, lol. I guess he could have found Zorah's residual dumped energy and shacked up there to grow though.

Baby Xeno'Jiiva sucks up all the energy (from the Elders Recess, bioenergy focal point) and then flies off to find more (Guiding Lands, Zorah grave) so he can keep growing? Didn't we kill Xeno'Jiiva though? Scary that there's more than one out there, and we evidently missed it

[ᔑᓭ∴ᔑリ⊣]

Originally posted by Greb:

I have no idea if it's a time based thing, I thought it was a DPS check. You had to deal a % of elemental damage in X% of health damage, and if you did then the nova wave was survivable, if not then it kills you. Again it has been a long time since I played so I can't be sure, maybe it does happen every X minutes though. Or maybe it's a bit of both?

oh i mustve misread, i thought u meant the main supernova he does, not the weakened one specifically. Just the nova in general lol

if you remember, we didn't actually confirm the kill of xeno in the story, his body falls down the hole with us and then we wake up back at base or wherever to the handler's beautiful face
and the area definitely isn't the same one we fight safi in, its too different, xeno's arena looks visually 1:1 like part of the elders recess but safi's arena doesn't at all. im not sure if its in the grinding lance tho, it reminds me more of a different area idk. i dont remember the cutscenes, maybe they make it clearer

[Greb]

Hmm, I don't remember actually. The cutscenes purged from my mind, I just remember carving a big thing...I ought to go back and watch all of the cutscenes actually.

I guess it's like El Dorado, no clue how or where we found that but we did, I guess it's just a place like any other. Nothing like Castle Schrade where we sailed all the way back to the old world just for one hunt...although it was an important one