Why are animations so slow?

[Irae]

Moving is slow. Attacking is slow. Using items is slow. Why?

[Netsa]

Escrito originalmente por DaTank:

the R word.

Why can't you guys just have an adult conversation?

This thread getting so popcorn-worthy is pretty funny, considering the OP wasn't saying anything that wasn't true.

[H1tSc4n]

Because this way you are more vulnerable.
Most monsters aren't that fast anyways. The faster ones can definitely be challenging, but with enough practice you can do anything.

[Toxi]

Escrito originalmente por lexilogo:

Escrito originalmente por phosTR:

"Combat is mooth"
Do you even know what clunky means? Did you even played with Hammer or GS to see how CLUNKY your character moves are while using those weapons to attack?

Clunky in the context of videogames hardly has a concrete definition and it's an extremely subjective definition.

I'm not comfortable with calling MH "clunky" because generally speaking your character responds when you want them to do something- IF you have the right expectations going in. If you're going in after playing Bayonetta when you can cancel almost every single attack in the game into a dodge (that is not to disrespect Bayonetta, that's one of the central design pillars of the game), of course it will feel clunky.

However, if you don't go in with a buttonmash mindset and know what you're doing, it generally doesn't feel clunky IMO. The controls do exactly what you tell them to do and attacks always start exactly when you ask, I always feel in control when hunting, new players who are getting tossed around will obviously feel a bit differently.


I have played with Hammer/GS extensively (GS is my second main) and I still disagree with you.

Hammer is actually one of the most mobile weapons in the game. Hammer's charging system means you can back away from a monster without breaking your damage combos and quickly move in for a hit when you see your opening.


GS is the slowest overall weapon in the game and will feel clunky to someone new to GS but GS provides TONS of options to deal with attacks while you're using it to the point where you only have yourself to blame if you can't react to a monster attack in time when using it

GS has lengthy attacks, but can cancel its endlag into rolls, so a lot of times people get hit, it's because they went for a second attack instead of rolling out of the way.

GS has lengthy chargetimes, but can interrupt charges with a Tackle, which reduces all damage by 50%, provides knockback immunity and counts as a charge for your sword, so if you're about to get hit mid-charging you can deny most of the damage.

GS has bad sheathing and movespeed when drawn, but it's ALSO got an emergency Guard option which while not a good one, is there and will function to save your life if you get really screwed over.


GS, despite having the least agile moveset in the game, pretty much gives you an option for reacting to attacks whenever you are not actively damaging things with the sword. It feels fantastic to pull off and it's why I run GS so much.

Cyber Kitten;4540134453706694522]Yeah, but the problem with this game is the amount of time hunters have to react to monster movements and attacks. If you took a game and made it just "faster" by a set amount to the entirety of it, it would become stupidly hard, slowing it down makes it easier by at least giving people the amount of time needed to make decisions.

I'm not sure if you properly digested Juliane_L's post. I don't entirely agree with all of it but there's an element of truth in that it's true old MH games were even slower, and World had to compensate by making monsters way faster with less significant tells and openings.

The problem is definitely IMO NOT "the amount of time hunters have to react". You could speed up this game even more but that'd make a lot of attacks legitimately unfair by beating human reaction times. Most attacks are extremely well-balanced for reactability especially when compared to previous games.



To respond to the OP's simple question "why?" I'm going to address this from the perspective of a DS player coming over to MH- The answer is iframing and single target combat.

In DS, combat against a single target generally relies on a few things: Roll timing, and punishing/overcommitment once you get a window to attack the boss. That IS boss combat in DS boiled down and those two skills can beat any fight in Dark Souls.

In Monster Hunter basically everything is boss combat, so how do you get away from that? Animation commitment, and lower iframes.

Iframing is still possible in MH but much more difficult to learn and less practical because of attack animation commitments. This is a deliberate design choice, because boss attacks are also balanced around this, generally lacking the wide sweeps and extensive character tracking DS bosses have and instead assuming that the way you're avoiding this attack is by either not being in its way, or having a shield in its way.


In other words, it makes concepts like positioning matter a hell of a lot more in single-target combat as opposed to Dark Souls which's bosses are essentially a rhythm game, and Monster Hunter uses this to add more dimensions to combat to make it more difficult to master on repeat runthroughs and therefore provide an experience that's more engaging when you're fighting the same monster multiple times.

In Dark Souls, bosses are pretty simple affairs to master once you get their rhythm down, in Monster Hunter every single monster is capable of surprising you once in a while because there's far more elements to the fight.


If you play it instead of trying to assert standards from other series, you'll probably have fun with it.

so far this is the only great answer here. There's more to add here but just to skim through, MHW is fun when your mind is racing through possible viable options you could take in a situation, the slinger, the roll, sheathing your weapon to superman dive if need be, heal, move behind the monster and so on.
This is where the game shines at its most, because it feels very dynamic how you can assess problems and some choices are the safest, but while others aren't as safe, their risk can provide you with a clear opening on the monster, which is how I like to play whenever I can.

The game still doesn't do nearly a good enough job hinting you the existence of these things that are invaluable, all of the optional quests, or the palico gadgets, which I kid you not, I discovered those long after I beat most of the base game, just me leveling every single one of my palico gadgets while hunting tempered apex / elder dragons with ease.
Not saying that it's necessary to have them to beat the game, but like anything else, not having it will make your game a lot more painful than it needs to be, which is something I'm looking to not go through with Iceborne now, because from experiencing the wonders that are the Barrioth and Tigrex, yeah, they're going to get smacked down and into an unga-bunga as fast as humanly possible and end those hunts as fast as I can. After all, it was the same story for Lunastra and Kushala. Ok, maybe not as painful as melee Kushala in the base game. Still. No one should have to suffer through prolonged hunts of these monsters.

[Netsa]

Escrito originalmente por toxicitzi:

There's more to add here but just to skim through, MHW is fun when your mind is racing through possible viable options you could take in a situation, the slinger, the roll, sheathing your weapon to superman dive if need be, heal, move behind the monster and so on.
This is where the game shines at its most, because it feels very dynamic how you can assess problems and some choices are the safest, but while others aren't as safe, their risk can provide you with a clear opening on the monster, which is how I like to play whenever I can.

Everyone plays differently; the idea's kind of foreign to me, unless I'm fighting a monster for the first time and don't know what to do. I only really look at different options when I'm messing around, otherwise it's a more robotic system of simple reactions and upkeep. It's doing that so dodge, it's doing this so attack there, find a spot to sharpen, etc. Unless I see a ledge, then all reactions turn into "it's doing *anything*, LEDGE. LEDGE!"

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Escrito originalmente por Netsa:

This thread getting so popcorn-worthy is pretty funny, considering the OP wasn't saying anything that wasn't true.

Speaking of - the OP replied on the previous page, it's post #36. He was quite reasonable, which makes for an interesting contrast to how heated these conversations can get.

Escrito originalmente por Irae:

thanks for replies, everyone, i understand now

[Toxi]

Escrito originalmente por Shadow88:

Escrito originalmente por Netsa:

This thread getting so popcorn-worthy is pretty funny, considering the OP wasn't saying anything that wasn't true.

Speaking of - the OP replied on the previous page, it's post #36. He was quite reasonable, which makes for an interesting contrast to how heated these conversations can get.

Escrito originalmente por Irae:

thanks for replies, everyone, i understand now

yeah. this is what I was going about earlier, how it usually goes here and why I got no chill around these typical almost programmed/auto-responder replies these topics usually get. Sometimes they absolutely deserve it, but there's no differentiation from some people, it's always the same old, same old.

Still, it is worth seeing some people come with some decent discussions at times.

[Toxi]

Escrito originalmente por Netsa:

Escrito originalmente por toxicitzi:

There's more to add here but just to skim through, MHW is fun when your mind is racing through possible viable options you could take in a situation, the slinger, the roll, sheathing your weapon to superman dive if need be, heal, move behind the monster and so on.
This is where the game shines at its most, because it feels very dynamic how you can assess problems and some choices are the safest, but while others aren't as safe, their risk can provide you with a clear opening on the monster, which is how I like to play whenever I can.

Everyone plays differently; the idea's kind of foreign to me, unless I'm fighting a monster for the first time and don't know what to do. Otherwise, I only really look at different options when I'm messing around, otherwise it's a more robotic system of simple reactions and upkeep. It's doing that so dodge, it's doing this so attack there, find a spot to sharpen, etc. Unless I see a ledge, then all reactions turn into "it's doing *anything*, LEDGE. LEDGE!"

heh. yeah, same.. especially when it's the tail close to the ledge, my brain goes the same way.

as for the other things, I guess we all do it by robotic motions at times because it works best from getting so used to the monster's moveset, but I think I mean more that we also tend to break that robotic motion every now and then even if it's not always the best idea.

[Remi]

There should be an option for players that feel like they're not up to the challenge of the easiest MH game, it could fittingly be called "Souls Babbies" mode, I think they'll implement that in MH6 which has you have 500 HP and sticky 7 so no brain cells would be required to play optimally, perfect for any Bab Souls """"""vet"""""". Slap on zoomer iframes mutliple seconds long to remain faithful to the source.

[Netsa]

Escrito originalmente por toxicitzi:

Escrito originalmente por Netsa:

Everyone plays differently; the idea's kind of foreign to me, unless I'm fighting a monster for the first time and don't know what to do. Otherwise, I only really look at different options when I'm messing around, otherwise it's a more robotic system of simple reactions and upkeep. It's doing that so dodge, it's doing this so attack there, find a spot to sharpen, etc. Unless I see a ledge, then all reactions turn into "it's doing *anything*, LEDGE. LEDGE!"

heh. yeah, same.. especially when it's the tail close to the ledge, my brain goes the same way.

as for the other things, I guess we all do it by robotic motions at times because it works best from getting so used to the monster's moveset, but I think I mean more that we also tend to break that robotic motion every now and then even if it's not always the best idea.

I see what you mean. I just usually don't do it unless I'm either testing something ("okay, that doesn't work") or lowering the difficulty setting, so to speak. It can be pretty liberating, since you suddenly have access to a much wider variety of actions than you normally would. Using the least-used attack in your moveset, rolling against attacks you know you can't roll through, and occasionally finding out something new and unknown.

IG is probably the best example of it. Not dodging anything, no reason to try mounting, monster may even be toppled... jumping anyway, because I'm not punished for doing it and this isn't a DB.

[Remi]

Escrito originalmente por Netsa:

Escrito originalmente por toxicitzi:

heh. yeah, same.. especially when it's the tail close to the ledge, my brain goes the same way.

as for the other things, I guess we all do it by robotic motions at times because it works best from getting so used to the monster's moveset, but I think I mean more that we also tend to break that robotic motion every now and then even if it's not always the best idea.

I see what you mean. I just usually don't do it unless I'm either testing something ("okay, that doesn't work") or lowering the difficulty setting, so to speak. It can be pretty liberating, since you suddenly have access to a much wider variety of actions than you normally would. Using the least-used attack in your moveset, rolling against attacks you know you can't roll through, and occasionally finding out something new and unknown.

IG is probably the best example of it. Not dodging anything, no reason to try mounting, monster may even be toppled... jumping anyway, because I'm not punished for doing it and this isn't a DB.

You get punished by dealing negative damage lad. The game does not intend players to "play" that way.

[Toxi]

Escrito originalmente por Netsa:

Escrito originalmente por toxicitzi:

heh. yeah, same.. especially when it's the tail close to the ledge, my brain goes the same way.

as for the other things, I guess we all do it by robotic motions at times because it works best from getting so used to the monster's moveset, but I think I mean more that we also tend to break that robotic motion every now and then even if it's not always the best idea.

I see what you mean. I just usually don't do it unless I'm either testing something ("okay, that doesn't work") or lowering the difficulty setting, so to speak. It can be pretty liberating, since you suddenly have access to a much wider variety of actions than you normally would. Using the least-used attack in your moveset, rolling against attacks you know you can't roll through, and occasionally finding out something new and unknown.

IG is probably the best example of it. Not dodging anything, no reason to try mounting, monster may even be toppled... jumping anyway, because I'm not punished for doing it and this isn't a DB.

that's one thing I don't do enough of, using other weapons. I should try that more often especially now.