Monster Hunter: World

Monster Hunter: World

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Noel Jun 6, 2024 @ 2:01pm
Why is SnS so bad in terms of dmg?
Is it because it's the easiest weapon? a timed perfect rush with longass duration's dmg is lower than hbg's 3 shotgun hit or 2 charge blade's saxe swing, it's only slightly better than bow and lbg(probably even worse) no wonder people run it WR
Last edited by Noel; Jun 6, 2024 @ 2:02pm
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Showing 61-75 of 113 comments
Nero Jun 7, 2024 @ 2:32am 
I‘m not sure why OP is upset that a camper isn‘t as fast as a lambo but the posts made it clear that no amount of discussion will get past the bias.
Manticore Jun 7, 2024 @ 2:33am 
Originally posted by Noel:
The role I want SnS to fulfill is to at least ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ deal a bit more dmg to monster while giving me protection a shield should be giving. if a game sword and shield's main moves is to jump evade and spam jump attacks, is it really a sword and "shield"? aren't you supposed to just swing, slash and guard?

The real purposes of shield in SnS are more like emergency defense equipment if you can't evade it and to bonk the monster's head to trip them over. It's not used for damage trading, never was..

Also the weapon itself is always about hit, run, and evade timing because that's how the playstyle for the weapon works, every weapons have their own trait and so does SnS, that's why it's also the best weapon used for people who want to be the support of the team..

Is it really that weak? No not at all, in fact the damage output is somewhat broken IMO, if you use it in correct way.

it's possible that people you've encountered using it basically didn't have better idea how to use it properly, either that or they applied incorrect skills..
StanislavN Jun 7, 2024 @ 2:36am 
Originally posted by Noel:
I've not used any information provider but I could tell SnS is very bad for dmg just from thousand of SoS I joined, and almost all of SoS users are either WR, or still in building progress. Not seen 1 high dmg SnS player yet.

Originally posted by Noel:
relying on SoS as a benchmarking tool? Is multiplayer a benchmarking tool seriously? I played with groups and my friends, SnS is just low damage, one of my friend shows damage chart after each hunt, sad that SnS with all atk skills on it's still lower than most of melees. It is a BADLY balanced weapon if you heavily relies on scripting a monster's action and spam one move. you can't bring palico, you can't use your shield on sword and shield, you can't m1 since its dmg is low as ♥♥♥♥.

You used SOS results as an example of SnS having very bad damage output, I said that SOS is a bad benchmarking tool for a good reason while also providing similar example at the end with a result that every experienced player knows is wrong (HBG has 2nd lowest skill ceiling with highest damage output potential, unlike result that I got from SOS).

Plus SnS doesn't rely on scripting (just like other weapons outside of speedrunning). What it relies on is how you can adapt to different situations - and your knowledge about monster attacks. PR has the priviledge of being low-commitment, high-damage move that you can also cancel midway through on practically any step - and also really easy to set up. Either backhop (distance to get out of attack or i-frame through) out of most moves or slinger burst (Distracted monster or attack that doesn't need to be avoided - like Alatreon's lightning storm).

There are only two things that you actually HAVE to learn with SnS ... When to actually press attack button during PR (If you time it right you get a massive damage increase) and not commiting to 3rd hit unless you are 100% sure that monster's not going to throw you off or move in a way that you'll just hit air. And, as others said, other moves are fine while waiting for an opportunity. Way lower damage, but perfectly viable. That "60 damage on HR monsters" is enough to kill most of them in ~100 hits - and if similar 60 on MR monsters - ~400 in singleplayer.

And if you compare your SnS' damage output to other players' with melee weapons and it's consistently lower, even in SOS... Yeah. The only reason why is that it doesn't suit you , so try different weapons instead sticking with the one that doesn't fit your playstyle. After all, there are other 10 melee\3 ranged weapons to chose from.
Agoraphobic Meep Jun 7, 2024 @ 2:39am 
Originally posted by Noel:
Originally posted by Dagný:

Who was using the SnS? you?
no I'm charge blade sns main, they were SnS main w/ agitator 7 and atk 7, and he was lower than everyone as expected, sadly to pull enough weight, WR5 is must
I will gladly hunt with you sometime if it will help change your perspective. I'm no SNS main but I have enough of a handle on it to show you it's not as weak as you think it is.

Granted I'm away from home right now, and when I come back I'm going to be a bit swamped, but still, hopefully my schedule frees up soon. We can hunt fatalis together and compare our DPS if you think that'll be a decent benchmark, I'll reinstall hunterpie when I get back from vacation.
Last edited by Agoraphobic Meep; Jun 7, 2024 @ 2:46am
FuyuNoSora Jun 7, 2024 @ 2:53am 
Originally posted by Agoraphobic Meep:
We can hunt fatalis together and compare our DPS if you think that'll be a decent benchmark, I'll reinstall hunterpie when I get back from vacation.

Cheating is not the answer. I have a challenge for any SNS user: try to cut off the tail of Safjiva with the Sword and Shield. If you can't do it, you have to agree that the weapon is bad. If you can't consistently cut the tail of any monster with SNS, then it's a trash weapon and I'm quite sure it is.
Last edited by FuyuNoSora; Jun 7, 2024 @ 2:53am
Agoraphobic Meep Jun 7, 2024 @ 2:55am 
Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:
Originally posted by Agoraphobic Meep:
We can hunt fatalis together and compare our DPS if you think that'll be a decent benchmark, I'll reinstall hunterpie when I get back from vacation.

Cheating is not the answer. I have a challenge for any SNS user: try to cut off the tail of Safjiva with the Sword and Shield. If you can't do it, you have to agree that the weapon is bad. If you can't consistently cut the tail of any monster with SNS, then it's a trash weapon and I'm quite sure it is.
:papyrus: I don't even know how to respond to this, what the ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about
FuyuNoSora Jun 7, 2024 @ 3:12am 
Originally posted by Agoraphobic Meep:
:papyrus: I don't even know how to respond to this, what the ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about

I'm sure you can't respond, as you've never cut the tail of Safjiva with a small paring knife and a cardboard pot lid. (Not once in your life).

Hunterpie is cheating, and if SNS is so bad that people have to resort to cheating it just shows how bad it is.

Low reach weapons or characters like Wario are simply garbage. Even a short weapon like Hammer has a better reach than SNS and the damage output is like 2 times higher without having to jump around like a frog. Funny thing is it's the very same story with Wario, you have to jump and jump and jump.

Why even use the "sword", if the Clutch Claw has more reach? Just spam Clutch Claw.
Last edited by FuyuNoSora; Jun 7, 2024 @ 3:24am
Agoraphobic Meep Jun 7, 2024 @ 3:14am 
Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:
Originally posted by Agoraphobic Meep:
:papyrus: I don't even know how to respond to this, what the ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about

I'm sure you can't respond, because you not once in your life cut the tail of Safjiva with a small paring knife and a cardboard pot lid.

Hunterpie is cheating, and if SNS is so bad that people have to resort to cheating it just shows how bad it is.

Low reach weapons or characters like Wario are simply garbage. Even a short weapon like Hammer has a better reach than SNS and the damage output is like 2 times higher without having to jump around like a frog. Funny thing is it's the very same story with Wario, you have to jump and jump and jump.

Why even use the "sword", if the Clutch Claw has more reach? Just spam Clutch Claw.
I'm using hunterpie for the damage chart in this specific hunt i was talking about, in order to have an accurate measurement for a debate. If you consider that cheating, that take is so comically irrational I'm not interested in talking with you.
Smaugi Jun 7, 2024 @ 3:25am 
Originally posted by Agoraphobic Meep:
Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:

I'm sure you can't respond, because you not once in your life cut the tail of Safjiva with a small paring knife and a cardboard pot lid.

Hunterpie is cheating, and if SNS is so bad that people have to resort to cheating it just shows how bad it is.

Low reach weapons or characters like Wario are simply garbage. Even a short weapon like Hammer has a better reach than SNS and the damage output is like 2 times higher without having to jump around like a frog. Funny thing is it's the very same story with Wario, you have to jump and jump and jump.

Why even use the "sword", if the Clutch Claw has more reach? Just spam Clutch Claw.
I'm using hunterpie for the damage chart in this specific hunt i was talking about, in order to have an accurate measurement for a debate. If you consider that cheating, that take is so comically irrational I'm not interested in talking with you.
Save your sanity and ignore them
StanislavN Jun 7, 2024 @ 4:04am 
Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:
I have a challenge for any SNS user: try to cut off the tail of Safjiva with the Sword and Shield. If you can't do it, you have to agree that the weapon is bad. If you can't consistently cut the tail of any monster with SNS, then it's a trash weapon and I'm quite sure it is.
Took 14 minutes and 2 aggros, without aggro? Would probably take 11-12 min tops. Safi just has the most annoying tail cut in the entire game. Lots of HP, 35 HZV after tenderizing (WEX is at 45+ HZV, so there's 50% less affinity). Plus, considering that I used half-support build instead of FC SnS without partbreaker- and it's my 9th most used weapon with just 126 hunts - easily pushable under 7min range with a good SnS player.

TL:DR : It was just as easy (And annoying) as with other melee weapons, considering that I don't have a lot of experience with SnS.

Edit: Also forgot about 33% damage reduction on parts that aren't broken, so there's another annoying thing about Safi part breaks in general.
Last edited by StanislavN; Jun 7, 2024 @ 4:17am
FuyuNoSora Jun 7, 2024 @ 4:34am 
Originally posted by StanislavN:
Took 14 minutes

Ugh I gave out an award, but then it dawned on me that it could all be a lie.

Well, "congrats" on doing the impossible, but I'm sure you have over 2000 hours in MH, are a mod user, or extremely talented, and also have a great set to do so. All of that combined sort elongated the abilities of the SnS. Still I guess you had to jump very often and it was an utmost awful experience.
DoEFotGS Jun 7, 2024 @ 4:47am 
Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:
Well, "congrats" on doing the impossible, but I'm sure you have over 2000 hours in MH, are a mod user, or extremely talented, and also have a great set to do so. All of that combined sort elongated the abilities of the SnS. Still I guess you had to jump very often and it was an utmost awful experience.
You again :'D

Fun fact: Safi is a siege monster developed for multiplayer specifically.

Cutting tail in full party is not a big deal, even with all bad things that StanislavN mentioned for you. Safi also does not heal specific HP bar what game use for severing tail, only global tail HP bar what used to calculate flinches or broke, if tail can't be severed.

Cutting tail solo is extremely unfun and not easy even for 'good' weapons :'D
StanislavN Jun 7, 2024 @ 4:49am 
Originally posted by FuyuNoSora:
Originally posted by StanislavN:
Took 14 minutes

Ugh I gave out an award, but then it dawned on me that it could all be a lie.

Well, "congrats" on doing the impossible, but I'm sure you have over 2000 hours in MH, are a mod user, or extremely talented, and also have a great set to do so. All of that combined sort elongated the abilities of the SnS. Still I guess you had to jump very often and it was an utmost awful experience.
Nah, mostly just normal slashes and PR part 1 (Or up to 3 on topples during Phase 1) from slinger burst... Due to PR having issues with tail cuts :

(1) 0.3x part break (Except for part 3 - hit after latching onto the monster does 2.5x part break, but another two issues - you have to land first hit and latch on - and not get latched to another body part). And that 0.3x and (2) pretty much puts PR close to normal slashes when it comes to cutting tails.

(2) First hit in first part and second part are... Shield bashes, i.e. blunt, not sever.

And about total hunts with SnS? 126.
StanislavN Jun 7, 2024 @ 5:03am 
Originally posted by DoEFotGS:
You again :'D

Fun fact: Safi is a siege monster developed for multiplayer specifically.

Cutting tail in full party is not a big deal, even with all bad things that StanislavN mentioned for you. Safi also does not heal specific HP bar what game use for severing tail, only global tail HP bar what used to calculate flinches or broke, if tail can't be severed.

Cutting tail solo is extremely unfun and not easy even for 'good' weapons :'D

Exactly. In MP - if someone knows how to lead Safi around during aggro - tail cut is a freebie. In Solo - you have to deal with turning around and constant swinging, making it a lot harder for weapons like GS to land a good hit (Mostly resulting in draw slash) while weapons like DB and SnS don't have the same issues with their quick attacks.

In MP during phase 1 Safi has 4 different targets to choose from - and depending on where players are tail can be in one place for a long while, allowing easy hits with high commitment attacks. In solo - 2 targets (or 1 without palico), plus with how palico likes to run around safi it's also way more likely to turn around and\or attack with tail multiple times.
Last edited by StanislavN; Jun 7, 2024 @ 5:06am
Cr1spy_w0lf Jun 7, 2024 @ 5:12am 
SnS is bad..

The only thing SnS is known to be bad is, "Guard Slash". If your damage fall behind, its skill issue.
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Date Posted: Jun 6, 2024 @ 2:01pm
Posts: 113