Why is SnS so bad in terms of dmg?

[Noel]

Is it because it's the easiest weapon? a timed perfect rush with longass duration's dmg is lower than hbg's 3 shotgun hit or 2 charge blade's saxe swing, it's only slightly better than bow and lbg(probably even worse) no wonder people run it WR

[Noel]

The role I want SnS to fulfill is to at least ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ deal a bit more dmg to monster while giving me protection a shield should be giving. if a game sword and shield's main moves is to jump evade and spam jump attacks, is it really a sword and "shield"? aren't you supposed to just swing, slash and guard?

[Agoraphobic Meep]

Originally posted by Noel:

The role I want SnS to fulfill is to at least ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ deal a bit more dmg to monster while giving me protection a shield should be giving. if a game sword and shield's main moves is to jump evade and spam jump attacks, is it really a sword and "shield"? aren't you supposed to just swing, slash and guard?

No, that’s lance’s deal, lance is the block and trade weapon. If you want to guard against something taller than a house, you need a shield of equally stupid proportions.

This isn’t a fair fight against a human, you can’t just hold a buckler in front of a dragon and not expect to lose your arm. The shield is always either to block small attacks you know the SNS can handle, or as a last resort to not cart.

Again, SNS deals consistent damage. Its numbers are fine, even outside of PR. They aren’t high, but they’re fast and add up. It’s a less volatile version of dual blades essentially.

If you’re getting bad times with SNS, you’re doing something wrong, simply put. You can kill monsters faster than 99.9 percent of hunters with any weapon, SNS included.

[Noel]

Originally posted by StanislavN:

Originally posted by Noel:

The ones talking about PR's damage output, saying they could dish out 10 perfectly timed PRs in a short time in general or multiplayer hunts, are complete clowns. Let's not even discuss how ineffective it is to rely on a single move. You need the monster's full attention, script their actions, and use an MR max-upgraded elemental SnS against that monster's weakness to deal OK damage. You'd have to practice on that one monster to the point where you can land 10 perfectly timed PRs on target monster in 2 minutes, and even then, you still need many tries to be like the "pros" you see in SnS TA speedruns. Be honest, you're not them, and even they had many attempts to achieve what they did in the speedrun video. The truth is, SnS is incredibly trash in the world and unbalanced. It's not that it's broken, but it has overall low damage and is very bad for general use. I've not used any information provider but I could tell SnS is very bad for dmg just from thousand of SoS I joined, and almost all of SoS users are either WR, or still in building progress. Not seen 1 high dmg SnS player yet.

1) "max-upgraded elemental SNS" got a laugh out of me. PR spam SnS focuses purely on RAW damage, NOT elemental.
2) Multiplayer... Heavily depends on WHO you get as teammates. Average in-game randoms and you'll struggle landing PR since they run around quite a bit - and, as a result, dragging monster around with them. Actually good players and you are unlikely to have the same issue since everyone just stays on top of monster, making it a lot easier to land PR... And sometimes to the point of actually being able to use PR on some attacks that you'd have to avoid in singleplayer.
3) Relying on SOS as your benchmarking tool is a terrible idea for a few reasons. Do you know if it's their first hunt with that weapon or they used it for a few hundred times (You could use guild cards, but would you really check every single player's - and not all of them are going to have auto-send or send it manually to you...)? Do you know how many times they fought X monster with Y weapon - or just fought X monster (Guild cards show how many times someone hunted a specific monster, but same problem as previous example)? Do you know if they got carried (or are getting carried) through everything or they played & practiced by themselves? Do you know if they edited their savefile to get gear & high HR\MR? Do you know if it's even their savefile or they are using someone else's? Too many unknowns. I could easily claim by the same logic that HBG has terrible damage output since I haven't seen ANY decent HBG users.

relying on SoS as a benchmarking tool? Is multiplayer a benchmarking tool seriously? I played with groups and my friends, SnS is just low damage, one of my friend shows damage chart after each hunt, sad that SnS with all atk skills on it's still lower than most of melees. It is a BADLY balanced weapon if you heavily relies on scripting a monster's action and spam one move. you can't bring palico, you can't use your shield on sword and shield, you can't m1 since its dmg is low as ♥♥♥♥.

[Noel]

I like sword and shield, I don't like paper knife and a buckler that I can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ parry or guard. hence why I would choose charge blade instead of that ♥♥♥♥.

[Noel]

Originally posted by Agoraphobic Meep:

Originally posted by Noel:

The role I want SnS to fulfill is to at least ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ deal a bit more dmg to monster while giving me protection a shield should be giving. if a game sword and shield's main moves is to jump evade and spam jump attacks, is it really a sword and "shield"? aren't you supposed to just swing, slash and guard?

No, that’s lance’s deal, lance is the block and trade weapon. If you want to guard against something taller than a house, you need a shield of equally stupid proportions.

This isn’t a fair fight against a human, you can’t just hold a buckler in front of a dragon and not expect to lose your arm. The shield is always either to block small attacks you know the SNS can handle, or as a last resort to not cart.

Again, SNS deals consistent damage. Its numbers are fine, even outside of PR. They aren’t high, but they’re fast and add up. It’s a less volatile version of dual blades essentially.

If you’re getting bad times with SNS, you’re doing something wrong, simply put. You can kill monsters faster than 99.9 percent of hunters with any weapon, SNS included.

SnS deals consistent low damage, and It builds up slowly. sns feels okay if you don't mind spending more time in a hunt and admire the beauty of the game. but I usually plays sos or with buddies, so I can't just be like a moron that deal the lowest damage with full atk skills and zero support skills. in most cases, I think SnS is for casual play and being a super medic in multiplayer.

[Agoraphobic Meep]

Originally posted by Noel:

I like sword and shield, I don't like paper knife and a buckler that I can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ parry or guard. hence why I would choose charge blade instead of that ♥♥♥♥.

Then you should play charge blade. You won’t get a satisfying answer here. SNS is a consistent weapon that MIXES high mobility with a semi reliable guard.

It does not rely on any single trait. It doesn’t have the best damage, it’s not the best for blocking, dual blades and insect glance are more mobile, but it uses all those traits to a decent extent, and has versatility and consistency to make up for that, even if it feels weak in terms of pure burst damage.

If those things aren’t appealing to you, play charge blade. It’s a heavy hitting weapon with a good guard, you’ll like it. The game has 14 weapons for a reason, and each one fits a niche. Complaining one weapon doesn’t fit the niche you want is pointless when you have so many options.

[Lystent]

Reminds me of how well the Charge Blade caters to 'in the moment' satisfaction. I often had to get an outside opinion that I actually pulled my weight with a Sword & Shield. The reply has always been related to how I was able to sustain my onslaught better; not only with doing far more overall attacks, but also helping with aggro management.

[Noel]

Capcom might need to buff sword and shield's slash dmg and guard power in wilds, because it really isn't fitting for a sword and shield to be this bad in slashing and guarding and rely on evading/jumping around. I don't know if you have played other medieval games, sword and shield should be the best option for slash and guard, best balanced defensive and offensive weapon.

[Lystent]

The thing about Monster Hunter is that it shifts the bar of what is "light-duty" and "heavy-duty" past the heavy side, in relative to real life. I'd describe the Charge Blade as a single-handed great sword with an insane metal slab, which can be combined (often accidentally in my case) into some ludicrously large battle axe that you'd expect than only a giant could wield. And as previously mentioned, there is a reason, as the query and not some mere humans burdened in plate armor, among other things.

[FuyuNoSora]

I think it's time they finally rename it to knife and buckler, most probably it was a translation error or something. In japanese it seems to be called "片手剣 = Katate(one handed) + Tsurugi(sword)", still too small for a real sword. Also it's so boring to have to rely only on one attack to dish out DPS, I hope we don't get that again. Still better if they change it to a real Sword and Shield and bury the old SnS forever.

[Dagný]

Originally posted by Noel:

I played with groups and my friends, SnS is just low damage, one of my friend shows damage chart after each hunt, sad that SnS with all atk skills on it's still lower than most of melees.

Who was using the SnS? you?

[Lystent]

The first metal tree Sword & Shield, the "Hunter's Knife" (IIRC), still looks like a pretty hefty blade for one-handed by IRL standards. Also, IRL standards are awkward, as developments into metallurgy has seen whatever length of blade that could be reasonably achieved extend far beyond from where it all started. Case in point: bronze (I forget if they tried with copper prior).

[Noel]

Originally posted by Dagný:

Originally posted by Noel:

I played with groups and my friends, SnS is just low damage, one of my friend shows damage chart after each hunt, sad that SnS with all atk skills on it's still lower than most of melees.

Who was using the SnS? you?

no I'm charge blade sns main, they were SnS main w/ agitator 7 and atk 7, and he was lower than everyone as expected, sadly to pull enough weight, WR5 is must

[Manticore]

It all depends on the build. with the correct build SnS could possibly among weapons with highest damage in the game..

SnS + Frostcraft for example, annihilate any monsters hp very quickly..

[Dagný]

Originally posted by Noel:

Originally posted by Dagný:

Who was using the SnS? you?

no I'm charge blade sns main, they were sns main w/ agitator 7 and atk 7, and he was lower than everyone as expected, sadly to pull enough weight, WR5 is must

How about you play with someone who actually knows what they're doing with SnS and then check the damage chart?