A light criticism on Rathians and Rathalos

[RikaFriedRice]

Before I begin, I'd like to start with the entire "This is an observance, I'm just giving input." statement. That being said, I can pretty much state this is a rather subjective review on the two big captials of the Monster Hunter franchise.

I've noticed, in my playtime of the various monster hunter games I've been able to clutch (Tri, Triu, Cross in it's glorious japanese release,) The one monster I've always hated fighting has popped up- The Rathalos. To veterans, this monster is defintinely the staple of the monster hunter universe; It appears in nearly every game, and has the same moveset, as well as the same aggression. I would call it the "Anchor." of this game
However, and this is something that's been bothering me on MHW a bit, I've noticed the Rathalos really sticks out in this game, and I wouldn't say it's in a good way. Where we see spirtual revivals of monsters (the Great Jagras vs Jaggi vs Tziki) This MH game remains at least partially ambitious in the monsters it chose to introduce to use this game- besides Rathalos. Let me briefly clarifiy

The Ratholos is a flying dragon wyven- with the ability to poison, shoot fireballs, and stun, as WELL as stun lock, for those unfortunate to not have his attack patterns memorized at this point. Sure, we see other monsters with plenty of CC's (Tziki is a good example) and plenty of status ailments (Barroth, Odegaron) but we don't generally pair these behaviours with hyper aggresion that Rathalos seems to put out. I think this is a flaw in it's design as it's behaviour has been ported from game to game to give the feeling of familiarity.
Inb4 this becomes a "git gud" statement, let me be clear- I don't believe that the difficulty increase is BAD as so much as DETRIMENTAL to this game's pacing. We see plenty of hyperaggressive monstos running around (Diablos, and Pickle-joh to name a few,) But I think one of the biggest problems I see with Rathalos is the lack of Exhaustion frames, and the amount of flying it does. With the new and fancy sub attacks weapons have in this game (Greatsword with it's super attack, Charge blade with both it's elemental discharge and super version of that, as well as many others,) the Rathalos begins to feel more like a chore or obstacle, rather than an epic fight against what many, including myself, percieve to be a dragon fight.
The amount of time you see a rathalos flying/poisoning and mindlesly charge flailing gets to be annoying to wait out on heavier weapons, and even on certain weapons like the Insect glaive, it gets annoying trying to get the correct pheromone punches when it's constantly in flight stage.

Now, I understand, this bulk mostly just seems like a baddy complaining on the AI mechanics of a monster- And for the most part it is. I'd just like to suggest the idea that, just because we keep seeing a familiar face in the game, Why can't we adjust the AI of the monster to have less anti-fun mechanics, and more of what the rest of the game feels like- a Strategic RPG experience?
Just because something gets imported over and over again doesn't make it the best. There's plenty of flaws with the AI of the Rathalos that could be adjusted, yet, we still see it with the same time-stalling flaws it's had since it's original release game.


Anyway, feel free to leave thoughts- Productive ones. Does anyone else feel similiar to this?
Thanks, guys.

[pmcollectorboy]

Even while flying, Rathalo's tail comes within range of many weapons' upswing/upstab moves. While fighting Rathalos, I gladly sacrifice defense to put on three pieces of gear with poison defense, thus giving me total poison immunity and taking one thing to worry about out of the equation, leaving only fire breath and his blasted stun locks.

[Kogan]

I definitely agree that Rathian/Rathalos are some of the most annoying monsters to fight in the game, mainly because of how much they can fly around the map before you can even begin fighting them in the first place.

Many times I've had an investigation to do with one or both of these two monsters and I would spend more time trying to actually catch up to them and initiate the fight than actually fighting them. You see them on your map, you get close and they keep flying away to some other far off location and the cycle repeats. Very frustrating.

It's to the point where I just avoid those monsters altogether because it's more trouble than it's worth, wasting my time chasing them for a lot longer than any other monster in the game.

As for their movesets I can't speak on that as I haven't fought them in a while. But I just shut them down with traps and flashes to quickly end the battle but fighting those two definitely does present a little difficulty spike, especially with Azure Rathalos if you aren't careful.

[Kriegor]

Originally posted by OFFICER Undyne:

epic fight against what many, including myself, percieve to be a dragon fight.
The amount of time you see a rathalos flying/poisoning and mindlesly charge flailing gets to be annoying to wait out on heavier weapons, and even on certain weapons like the Insect glaive, it gets annoying trying to get the correct pheromone punches when it's constantly in flight stage.

Well perceive as a dragon fight and being a dragon fight are 2 different things entirely with rathalos being a wyvern, but thats completely off-topic and pointless to discuss.

Rathalos gets introduced to us in mhw at a point where you should have learned all there is to hunting monsters, and using all the tools you have acces to against it.

-flashpods + crafting more on the fly
-shock and pitfall traps (can even place them, wait for rathalos to fly over it and then drop it with a flash. or put one down after flashing)
-bounce bombs to shoot it out of the sky above you, or you can place large barrel bombs and have him charge into them, or detonate them when he gets close
-Tails can be cut, rathalos' tail is always reachable even when in the air
-Not all weapons are going to be optimal against every beast, but that teaches you to either change weapon, or adapt your preferred weapon to work against it, greatsword going primarily old-school hit-and-run with just draw slices on the feet/tail when he's flying, or with chargeblade making use of the reach of the axe form to name some examples.
-there are a lot of walls you can use to jump towards him and get some air attacks in, which will lead to a mount at some point
-Being fast and aggressive is all part of the character the Rathalos has
-if he pins you, which will happen often if you are new to fighting him, you'll quickly learn he will either fireball or fly towards you and do a small flame wave, fireball is horizontal directed towards you, wave is horizontal to your sides, that tells you how to dodge them, learn and live or die trying.
-can also grab stuff from around the zone, rocks etc, to pelt him with while he flies around, this sometimes staggers and gives you a chance to get a hit or 2 in while he is flying.
-if it becomes too dangerous to keep fighting, have dung pods so you can get some breathing room.
-patience. this gets overlooked but its a design decision for all the hyper-aggressive monsters.(you mentioned diablos, a monster that also requires patience to beat when you are fighting him for the first few times)

I could go on and on about different things that are availlable but this should already show that you get tons of options by the time you fight rathalos in mhw, and if you keep failing, adjust your strategy accordingly, this isnt a god of war esque button mash combo fest after all.

Now I am definitely aware of the posibility to just get stunlocked into a coma and faint without having a chance to react, but this also teaches you that a hunt will never go how you want or planned, failing is part of the learning process after all (I still remember getting my ass handed to me by khezu in freedom unite, and getting stuck on tigrex for atleast a week).

I wouldnt say the AI is the real problem, rather the pacing in mhw is a tad bit fast depending on how fast of a learner you are and how experienced you are with games like this in general.

Would be nice to keep the discussion going on not just Rathalos but other mhw related things aswell, because it might help others, or even ourselves depending on if people come across this thread.

[fairsalads]

When I first pickup this game (PS4) I also hated flying monsters too. After I learned about traps, flashpod, palico trap wizard skill and monster element weaknesses then these flying monsters are piece of cake. I recently bored and made a new fresh character and these flying wyvern no longer a thread to me even I'm wearing all the trash gears and weapon, my routine fight: flash it, zerg it, trap it and zerg it again, fash it...zerg it...trap it...It's probably near death by now, and more often I killed it on the spot and it didn't have a change to fly back its nest to rest, I'm using Charge Blade! My main character using Greatsword.

[OnionKnight]

I don't know I always thought Rathalos was easier than Rathian even in MH4U. First the tail is super weak compared to Rathian. You could probably sever it with stones lmao. Then he focuses a lot more on fire attacks which are a lot easier to dodge than Rathian's endless bumrushing and tailswiping.

[McMurphy]

Flashpods and he is dead in no time... tails are of in no time with a GS.

[RikaFriedRice]

Originally posted by Aluerris:

Originally posted by OFFICER Undyne:

epic fight against what many, including myself, percieve to be a dragon fight.
The amount of time you see a rathalos flying/poisoning and mindlesly charge flailing gets to be annoying to wait out on heavier weapons, and even on certain weapons like the Insect glaive, it gets annoying trying to get the correct pheromone punches when it's constantly in flight stage.

I wouldnt say the AI is the real problem, rather the pacing in mhw is a tad bit fast depending on how fast of a learner you are and how experienced you are with games like this in general.

Would be nice to keep the discussion going on not just Rathalos but other mhw related things aswell, because it might help others, or even ourselves depending on if people come across this thread.

Thanks for your input! You make a lot of good points!

[V]

I have always considered Rathalos/ian the best punching bags for players that are trying to learn a new weapon. They have way too many openings, with the shoot fireball being the move that comes to mind when talking about openings. Not to mention the very easy to roll through roars and tail swipes that do not need a single point in Evade Window to iframe, although that maybe the case for me because I have been doing that since 2nd gen.

[cyäegha]

ian is definitely the best punching-bag for testing new weapons and builds, period

los, on the other hand, has pretty much just been made progressively more annoying to fight as the series goes on; in 2nd gen, if you brought flashes to los, you basically ousted yourself as a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

los being in the air all the time used to be a blessing because it made it very, very easy to land three-charges and superpounds on his face, and azure was even easier because he always did the backhop fireball out of a charge, and basically never followed it up with anything, which meant - you guessed it - ez 3-charges

[V]

Originally posted by cyäegha:

ian is definitely the best punching-bag for testing new weapons and builds, period

los, on the other hand, has pretty much just been made progressively more annoying to fight as the series goes on; in 2nd gen, if you brought flashes to los, you basically ousted yourself as a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

los being in the air all the time used to be a blessing because it made it very, very easy to land three-charges and superpounds on his face, and azure was even easier because he always did the backhop fireball out of a charge, and basically never followed it up with anything, which meant - you guessed it - ez 3-charges

So true. Silver Los is a freebie for Hammer/GS users for its notorious fly > fireball > land > repeat moveset lol. I literally do not see a difference between 2nd gen Los and Azure Los, except for the fact that Azure Los loved charging that poor mosswine lul. World Azure Los though, what a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ outside flash pods

[♋Phenex]

After getting flashes and traps, they are free farm. Before that they are incredibly annoying to fight.

[Vandals[UK]]

Originally posted by ❄:

So true. Silver Los is a freebie for Hammer/GS users for its notorious fly > fireball > land > repeat moveset lol. I literally do not see a difference between 2nd gen Los and Azure Los, except for the fact that Azure Los loved charging that poor mosswine lul. World Azure Los though, what a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ outside flash pods

Fight a Tempered with only 4 flash makes you want to swear. Espeically RNG SOS teammate throws out Flash pod like candies. When that happens, I switch to my HBG with Paralysis / Sleep and Stun. Or simply mess around and wait for the 3 carts.

Good thing though, is that Rathalos does get exhausted if you kite him around. The only problem is: can your Pig-Like teammates survive before Rathalo stops to take a break?

Rathian is a punch bag for sure. Except maybe NOT so much of a punch bag for SnS user.

[!?!]

The only problem with that little ♥♥♥♥ is that he keeps running away.
You haven't seen "wtf do I even do" hyperaggression until you get to beetlejuice.

[Ness Keyhand]

"Veteran" MH player here, played through MHFU, Tri, 3U, 4U and even imported Portable 3rd.
You know, my favourite monster is the Rathian. I really like the Rathalos as well, and basically you'll find me always being happy to hunt a Rath. I even love Golden Ian and Silver Los, yeah I'm kind of a masochist. BUT in Worlds, I've had so much frustratrion and hatred for Azure Los, and just Los in general, I just have to flash any Los I hunt 24/7 which just isn't the purpose of the game. But yeah, in Worlds, the Los is just always in the air, and a pain to deal with.

[twiggy]

i noticed when the other dragon joins the fight , if you shoot it with a dung pod, it makes both of them fly away instead of just that one