Is odogaron a bad match for the lance?

[Leon]

I'm having a hard time against him , just rage quited after 5 hours fighting it non stop trying to do the fight with no carts

I managed it 3 or 4 times but always after two carts

His chip damage is so so so insane , i have guard 2 , and even if he didn't get a single direct hit on me, by the time he changes zones he got 85% of my life just trough chip damage

The window to counter him after any move he does i so small that i can get just 2 pokes each time, sometimes i try a 3th poke but so often he does an insanaly fast bite that trying it is way too risk

When he flicnhs or exausts he jumps back 30 miles and the window here is too small too
Trying too reach him with dash guard is not very usefull cause often he is too far for that and lance charge is too risk cause no matter the follow up i use my recover animation is so long and the moster recovering is so fast that i wil just open myself for attacks

He has 3 heavy attacks tha causes big chip damage , his tail spin( that he can do even after severing his tail), an slash attack with both his forelimbs and a big bite that i can't see coming cause it's has the same generic looking animations as his other bites
I don't know how to deal with it cause doding with the lance is terrible and too be fair, i didn't choose the lance to play dodging

Fighting in the rotten vale is terrible too. Odo loves to hang in girros turf , and even if i take care to fight him far from the girros , sometimes the great one just shows up and messing things even more


What makes me even more sad is that the fight just bofere him was my greatest time with this game

Fighting legiana was amazing
I failed her my first 2 tmes , then i beat her 3 times being carted , and in my 6th try i got it with no carts
I could se me improving each time , by the end i felt i learned the monster


I watched a guy beating Odo with lance in 4 minutes , but i think even playing hundreds of hours i can't get the skill level i saw


Sorry for the rant, but i just needed to get it out of my system

[SushiJaguar]

Are you using the Lance Counter? Also, use Guard Dodges - it's not the same as your regular dodge button, it's a move you do by holding your guard button down and pressing the left face button on controller (X/Square). It's a dodge that guards at the same time, and you can follow it up with attacks. So you can dive forward through an attack and then shieldbash for stun damage, do a multi-hit stab, or just go back to normal pokes.

[Leon]

Originally posted by SushiJaguar:

Are you using the Lance Counter? Also, use Guard Dodges - it's not the same as your regular dodge button, it's a move you do by holding your guard button down and pressing the left face button on controller (X/Square). It's a dodge that guards at the same time, and you can follow it up with attacks. So you can dive forward through an attack and then shieldbash for stun damage, do a multi-hit stab, or just go back to normal pokes.

Thanks for the tips

I use the guard dodges just when i'm sure it's safe , but even so i got hit while following up with attacks , so i avoid it most the time

I'm avoiding the counter too.
I use it only against a basic slash he does after a big bite , generaly he folows up that slash with a pause where i go for the few pokes i can land or he does his tail spin

When i use the counter against other moves , often Odo misses the Shield and i'm left open for whatever he decides to throw at me next , so it's being safer just to normal block

[Reverend Swoll]

No Odogaron is actually a really nice matchup for lance, but he is the first of a few notable mobile opponents and so requires slightly different tactics. Lance plays a little different from many other weapons, in that most attacks the monster makes you can swiftly punish, and although lance has some of the best defensive moves in the game, they need to be used offensively to make the weapon shine. There is a whole lot of tech on lance to maintain guard between attacks, counter guard to retaliate after a hit, guard dashes to cancel your own attacks into guarded movement, and power guard to block indirect attacks or retaliate faster after heavy hits.

Lance is one of the comfiest weapons in the game, if you are having problems with an opponent just block until you understand it's moves. Attack when you have windows, don't be greedy, and hit guard+light attack+directional input to guard dash if the ending lag on your normal attacks leaves you open. Once you get past Odogaron and beyond you will develop the skill you watch others display, it is all just matter of practice, everyone had to put time in to learn their weapons.

Important to note that once you get to the end of base game and/or progress through Iceborne, there are a number of opponents who punish lance/gl users who play too defensive, or have attacks that are ill advised to block.

[Definively Not Alchman]

you sure it is the chip damage not effluvia doing all the damage?

i don't recall odogaron being that hard for me when i first fought him, neither him having such high chip damage like that, is your armor upgraded? (even tough i barely upgraded stuff back then also)

also, try using immunizer, it might help with the health issue if you can deal with the effluvia(you wont regen health in it)

[Suzaku]

Originally posted by Leon:

I use the guard dodges just when i'm sure it's safe , but even so i got hit while following up with attacks , so i avoid it most the time

I'm avoiding the counter too.
I use it only against a basic slash he does after a big bite , generaly he folows up that slash with a pause where i go for the few pokes i can land or he does his tail spin

When i use the counter against other moves , often Odo misses the Shield and i'm left open for whatever he decides to throw at me next , so it's being safer just to normal block

Don't ignore using counter. It's your best form of sustained dps, and will let you keep punishing the face and front legs for more trips.

If the monster misses while you hold your counter stance, you should then swap into power guard if you can't safely disengage. This will extend your defensive state to adapt to the monster's missed strike and subsequent follow-up attack, and allow for an even stronger counter thrust afterwards.

As for dealing with chip damage, your 4 best options are:

• Upgrade your guard. Guard levels 1/3/5 reduce the block animation, and therefore chip damage received. You'll see a noticeable difference between guard 2 and guard 5.
  
• Use the Health Booster equipment. It provides a constant stream of a healing cloud for a decent length of time on a fairly short cooldown. It's a ton of healing if you can stand your ground inside it, which the lance specializes in.
  
• Use the Vitality mantle. It absorbs the first 100 damage you take, including chip damage.
  
• Use the Vigorwasp palico gadget. Your cat will automatically fly over free heals to you on a short cooldown, or leave a vigorwasp station for you to manually pop if it's level 5 or above.

In the end-game you'll unlock health augments which let you heal for a percentage of the damage you deal, so chip damage is basically negated, but for now you'll have to make due with the skills and equipment available to you.

[Loxly]

You mean the bleeding that procs when he hits you? you're not supposed to attack him when you're bleeding, you can eat astera jerky while running away or crouch for a few sec and resume the fight.

[Leon]

Thanks everyone

* 'Reverend Swoll' - i try to use the Lance more offensively but i'm not having much success
Monster tend to do very fast and unpredictable counters , most in random moments , i cant react fast enough to counter -thrust . And Odo moves around so fast aways going for unguarded flanks thats preatty hard doing anything different from blocking
I will try using the guard dash to cancel missed attacks , tho

* 'Definively Not Alchman' and 'Loxly' - i'm using hornetaur mail that have effluvia expert skill , and i hardly get bleeding effect cause i manage to block most attacks , so those aren't being big problems
But ain't upgrading armor , i'll post my equipment

* 'Suzaku' , i'm using power guard when missing the counter, but it's too a risk move ( it seems everything in this fight is too risk) If i power 3 things can happen , 1 he attacks me and i'm good , 2 he stops and i manage to get a power poke or 3 he does a delayed attack or attacks right afffter the power is off , and i got hit really hard , and i don't like that gamble
I think i must pratice the counter -thrust i lillte more before using it more often

My def equipment and stats


Weapon Kulu lance/Pukei lance none upgraded

Armor - none upgraded -

Defense 103

Barroth helmet - guard skiil
Hornetaur mail - efflucva expert
High metal braces - defense boost
Baan coil - guard
Hornetaur graves - handicraft

defense charm

I'm not using the palico

[Leon]

Managed Odo with just one faint , after the faint i got his moves more consistently and cooled my head to not panic when on missing counter-thrusts

I went on wiht the story and reached Rathalos ... i really think i will give this game a break

[Definively Not Alchman]

so yeah, as a lance main i got curious and tried to do it with stats around the one you had.
and oh boy, i forgot how nasty things are when you barely have any hp. so much for "the endgame is the hard part"

so lemme see if i can help you.

first. this is how guarding works:
each attack in the game has a "impact" value which is compared with your "guard" value. then based on that it decides how your guard gonna be.
and there is 4 possible outcomes: full block without any chip, guard with a small knock back and some chip, guard with a big knock back and big chip and failing to guard.

the guard value is based on weapon type, and lance already has the highest base guard of any shield in the game, plus guard skill. but only level 1,3 and 5 raise the guard value, levels 2 and 4 only decrease the stamina while guarding.

i know you can't raise guard to 3 atm, but i dint explain that for no reason, you see most of the attacks from odogaron will actually do no chip on you with guard 1. from what i saw the 2 main attacks that cause a lot of chip is the one where he stands up on the backlegs then pounces with both claws at once and the tail flip.

the claw attacks only seems to come when he is at a certain distance from you, if you are closer he will prefer doing jab like pounces or other stuff, still if a claw attack is coming you can guard dash to the sides backwards and he will miss you, and even if he does you still guarded it

and guard dash is amazing. you gotta get good with it, i think it is the most important tool for lance after the counter

still chip damage is part of the lance life, till you get a way to passive regen health way latter on, there is not much you can do.
but here few tips:
even though there is not a lot of red health to regen with chip damage, using immunizer to boost regen still helps, specialty with the accidental non guarded hit
then there is the smoke bomb, god the smoke bomb is a godsend for lancers. need to heal or sharpen weapon? but you not sure the monster will let you? smoke bomb. be be aware the way it works is a bit janky

[prpl_mage]

Originally posted by Leon:

Managed Odo with just one faint , after the faint i got his moves more consistently and cooled my head to not panic when on missing counter-thrusts

I went on wiht the story and reached Rathalos ... i really think i will give this game a break

Congratulations on overcoming your challenge!

Also, when playing slow weapons preparations become more important as some people have pointed out. I remember back in 3 when I played hammer at first, and 3U when I used Gunlance, it demands so much timing of you to deal with your enemy.
For Rathalos you're gonna want flashpods and flashbugs to keep him grounded as much as possible. Don't be afraid to use traps and bombs. Poison Bombs are also great (but not against Rathalos) to keep damage up while doing your thing.

Just remember that just like Odogradon seemed impossible, you did defeat him and learnt his patterns. You're gonna do the same thing here.

There will be more speedy monsters up ahead (Nargacuga, Barioth, Tigrex to mention a few) so if you feel like Lance isn't doing it for you then try to switch up to a different and faster weapon that lets you have more mobility.
I personaly prefer the Charge Blade since it has a shield and counter (of sorts) but also good mobility in it's move set such as weird slide slide, dodge step mid combo etc.

[Chillhausen]

Well done :) you improved your hunting skills. I love to see peoples's progression live (kinda ^^)

[月]

I have never failed a story quest and very seldom cart. You might miss out something if you cart too often.

Is your equipment upgraded?
Does your backpack contain all remedy items?
Are you familiar with the weapon you're using?
Are you equipped with proper resistance when hunting particular monster?

You can visit the training room and check up other weapons.
Probably you might find another weapon more suitable for you.
I only use 1 type of weapon all the way, multi version on difference element.

[Leon]

thanks again everyone , this community have been great for me since i started playing this game

* 'Definively Not Alchman' - that was great info , thank you for taking your time.
The two heavy attacks you mentioned really were the most troublesome , the tail spin caused heavy chip damage and Odo would end it far away from me , safe from any punishment i could do
But doing this attack seemed preatty random , somitimes he would span tree times in a row, and others he would do every now and then , don't know if it have anything to do with the monster stamina or his rage state.
The rage seemed random too, first time i fought him he entered it at the very end of the fight , second time he got into it mid fight , sometimes he never got raged
But two things i will pay more attention , 1 i'll try to improve my guard dash and using the L2 to focus the camera and 2 i'll try to get some immunizer
Oh , and i was trying to understand the use of smoke bombs , i crafted some and was tring to use to get breathing room as you said , but sometimes it would do nothing and the monster would keep attacking me

Originally posted by prpl_mage:

Congratulations on overcoming your challenge!

Thanks , man

i'll try to cool down my head for a time, but i will get back to Rathalos.
I'm using traps to get free hits as you said
About flash pods it's a little hard to use it safely ,as the time window where rath's is not attacking is so small and the sheating animation take so long

Originally posted by Chillhausen:

Well done :) you improved your hunting skills. I love to see peoples's progression live (kinda ^^)

Thanks , it's a great feeling when we see that we are geting better
As i read a guy comenting about the loop for this game : " you manage the climb that huge wall just to fall head first against the next one " xD that's sums up my feelings after beating Odo and facing Rathalos shortly thereafter

Originally posted by 月:

I have never failed a story quest and very seldom cart. You might miss out something if you cart too often.

Is your equipment upgraded?
Does your backpack contain all remedy items?
Are you familiar with the weapon you're using?
Are you equipped with proper resistance when hunting particular monster?

.

1 i do not upgraded any equipment , just crafted new ones with bether stats and skills
2 i use the required itens to counter the monsters, like antidote against Pukei , nullberry against blight , etc . It's just that , sometimes it's hard to have a window to use it
3 i'm getting the hang of the lance . Watching some vid's i know i have a long way until learning all it has to offer , like the "fancy footwork" the game talks about
4 i try just to not to have negative values on the element of the monster i'm facing
Having a specific build against every element is a little harder right at the beginning as some armor can have the resistence you need but not the skill you want or good base defense value. I'know i could upgrade to solve the base defense problem , but i'm trying to save my resources until seeing more options and finding what armor better suits me

[Leon]

Oh , and about Rathalos , whats is giving me trouble against him

* His grab attack. It's fast and most times i cant's notice it's telling , and even if i do , my instinct playing lance for 70 hours is to block

* His point blank fire burp when on the ground , even blocking it blights me . I think it has to do with blast coming fron behind cause i tend to be right below him poking his legs , tail and sometimes i poke back at his head

* the most problematic tho , is when he uses what seemed to me to be his roar/air pressure from his wings /both(?) to open my block , lock me in that "oh my god the world is ending around me" animation and getting a free hit on me , like a fireball

* his fire phase, he went really berserker , giving almost no openings at all , managing to shot a flash pod against him is really a feat of skill by itself

[prpl_mage]

Originally posted by Leon:

Oh , and about Rathalos , whats is giving me trouble against him

* His grab attack. It's fast and most times i cant's notice it's telling , and even if i do , my instinct playing lance for 70 hours is to block

* His point blank fire burp when on the ground , even blocking it blights me . I think it has to do with blast coming fron behind cause i tend to be right below him poking his legs , tail and sometimes i poke back at his head

* the most problematic tho , is when he uses what seemed to me to be his roar/air pressure from his wings /both(?) to open my block , lock me in that "oh my god the world is ending around me" animation and getting a free hit on me , like a fireball

* his fire phase, he went really berserker , giving almost no openings at all , managing to shot a flash pod against him is really a feat of skill by itself

There is a tell to the grab but having played previous titles I can't really explain it. It's just there. I do think it is one of the grabs you can dungpod / whatever your way out of if you do get caught however.

If you get more Fire resistance you will become immune to the fireblight if that is an issue, if you don't want to swap equipment then consider eating at the chef for resistance bonus.

The roar + fireball is common thing for the raths, it gets everyone from time to time. With good enough Guard stat you can block both, but at the start of the game backing away to only be hit by the roar should keep your guard up even if you are staggered back. Not sure about the access of earplugs and wind resistance though.

You can fire the slinger with your weapon equipped right? Or was that added with the expansion? But yes, keeping him down at this point is a good idea. Mounting by doing jump attacks is also a valid strategy if the terrain allows you.
You can also dung pod it to a new area so it has some time to cool off and give you a moment to manage your health and such. Sleep is even better since it cancels rages, but not easy to come by for melee weapons.

Good luck and hope you get it. The flyers are problematic to say the least, when playing other weapons it can be nice to bring a Palico to aid you by diverting the attention but I suppose lancers like some other weapon groups just prefer to go without.