Monster Hunter: World

Monster Hunter: World

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jrubz 2020 年 10 月 10 日 上午 11:52
Tip on Fatalis armorset builds
While the Dragon Beta has 3 slots on everything, that isn't always efficient for everything. Here's a consideration list for each part

Head- Beta if aiming for evasion/non-shielding focused builds. Alpha if guard 3-5 is necessary.

Chest- Usually always Alpha, but if you just want to drop evasion focus all together, it gives a full extra 4 slot to work with on the Beta set.

Arms- Beta. There's tons of other ways to get handicraft and since you already have true razor sharp, it's pretty worthless to have x3 handicraft.

Waist- Alpha. I've had a hard time seeing any benefit out of using the Beta because it wastes slot potential. The 3 slots are more useful.

Legs- Just don't. Use the Taroth Alpha. (Beta wastes slot potential)

Charm- usually challenger 5. If for some odd reason RNG has blessed you with tons of challenger+ jewels instead, you can swap it for attack 5 and lose like 1 point of efficiency.

Anything that uses heavy stamina or element might still be better with a 3part safi set.


Edit: Added example setup for lance:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1660098407584134490/FD9B0E2C9A343F9493C321542FC3322450AF48D8/
最后由 jrubz 编辑于; 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 2:09
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正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 53 条留言
mewlynx 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 12:59 
引用自 Greb
Hey so I don't particularly follow the meta or the traditional damage > everything else style of building sets, but what makes Alpha better than Beta in terms of slot potential?

I'm only a Grug, me see bigger, more slot, me make bigger, more skill variety. Et cetera.

Explain it to me like I have a room temperature IQ, if you please. What gets wasted in terms of slot potential when comparing Waist and Legs Alpha and Beta? My smoothbrain has always had the idea that Alpha was for people without decorations, whereas Beta was for people with them, more flexibility with what they up with in a set.

I'll admit, I haven't even really looked at the Alpha version of Fatalis armour, I just saw piles and piles of Size 4 deco slots and my eyes began spinning in my head.

Here's my current generic Hammer build (pls no bully):
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/659722021491703808/764466362914963476/2704f82f385bfe6df184d8f4073a4d13.png
How would you in your infinitely superior wisdom improve this with Alpha pieces? I'd like to expand my knowledge, if you please!
Alpha gets a free point of WeX and the two level 3 slots are useful for shaver, brace, or coalescence. For gunners/bows its even better; I only use bow, but having two free level 3 slots for Forceshot and Spreadshot makes set building SO much easier even if you're just using the waist. KT alpha legs all get used for the free point of Peak Performance, but thats less universally useful depending on the match up.
Polaris 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:00 
Oh, and when switch axe usually needs only 1 alpha slot for earplugs, that chest piece starts looking even better :)
Emerald Lance 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:00 
引用自 Polaris
Old meta builds just had to suck it up, and shove a level 3 deco into a level 4 slot
Gross. Getting teo armor flashbacks! XD

引用自 Greb
引用自 Emerald Lance
It's tricky to explain without going into the actual maths of it. But you seem to already be getting the hang of it.
Trying to, at least!

Sort of off topic, how good is the Shaver Jewel, exactly? Haven't really paid attention because I'm usually using heavy weapons that tenderise in a single hit, and I haven't obtained one from quests yet to test it (I should probably just meld one I guess)

Curious, sometimes when I do my Hammer clutch attack, it'll tenderise on the first shot (probably because someone with a light weapon already had a crack at it before I did) rather than the usual second, much stronger hit in the attack combo. Would the Shaver Jewel make it so my Hammer always tenderised on the first hit without the need for the follow up?

And perhaps longer, too?

I worry about having the ability to drop slinger ammo with my Hammer clutch attacks because I use that attack very often, and I don't want to use up all of the slinger pod drops, I was always under the impression that you can only get so many from a monster in total and based on my playstyle I think I'd be spawning slinger ammo like every 10 seconds lol, which would probably go to waste.

Think it's worth using even on a Hammer anyway? I still don't really know what it does, exactly. I've only peeked at that one charm they added and the skills on it itself, really.
Are hammers not considered heavy weapons? I thought hammers softened in one?

Anyway, shaver is more or less useless with heavy weapons because slinger ammo is all over the place. On the other hand, it is extremely useful for any weapon that normally takes two clutch attacks to soften.

Shaver does not increase the time that a part remains softened. However, the Fatalis update a week and a half ago doubled the time from a minute and a half to three minutes.
最后由 Emerald Lance 编辑于; 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:06
Greb 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:05 
引用自 maelynx
Alpha gets a free point of WeX and the two level 3 slots are useful for shaver, brace, or coalescence. For gunners/bows its even better; I only use bow, but having two free level 3 slots for Forceshot and Spreadshot makes set building SO much easier even if you're just using the waist. KT alpha legs all get used for the free point of Peak Performance, but thats less universally useful depending on the match up.
Yeah, I don't bowgun very often so I've barely experienced the pain of slotting in 3 slots into 4 slots, but I can imagine if I was heavily focused on Piercing or Spread that having two 3 size slots on any given build would be a really great choice, and less triggering of my OCD when I put a 3 size into a 4 size slot, which really does bug me lol. Least Capcom could do is make like a Spread/Whatever or Piercing/Whatever jewel, but I guess that'd just lead to inefficiency anyway.

I'll never be nowhere near confident enough to consider Peak Performance in anything other than a Light Bowgun too, lol. I used to use it way back in High Rank, with that Taroth "Support" LBG and it's RFN2 or whatever, just running backwards with a Health Regen augment I think, never able to be hit pretty much.
引用自 Emerald Lance
Are hammers not considered heavy weapons? I thought hammers softened in one?

Anyway, shaver is more or less useless with heavy weapons because slinger ammo is all over the place. On the other hand, it is extremely useful for any weapon that normally takes two clutch attacks to soften.
They do, I'm sorry for mincing my words. Hammer clutch attacks have a "light" hit followed by a "heavy" hit in their clutch attack move, the first hit CAN cause a soften to happen (for example, if you only land your "light" attack before getting thrown off a monster, then you clutch attack again and it will soften on your "light" first hit, without you needing to land your follow up "heavy" hit, if that makes sense)

What I was asking / wondering was that maybe with a Shaver Jewel the first hit in the attack combo would instantly tenderise instead of needing to do the follow up heavy hit - it's a moot point anyway because you're committed once you launch the attack anyway and you can't cancel it, but it certainly would help when attempting to "brute force" a tenderised part or something, and you keep getting thrown off or something.

I guess it'd be useful in those few areas where slinger ammo doesn't really exist, like Elders Recess Nergigante nest.
最后由 Greb 编辑于; 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:09
mewlynx 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:19 
引用自 Emerald Lance
Shaver does not increase the time that a part remains softened. However, the Fatalis update a week and a half ago doubled the time from a minute and a half to three minutes.
Wait, are you saying that even without Shaver the default duration of a softening is 3 minutes? If that's the case I'm taking off Shaver on most of my builds.
Kaldor Draigo 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:23 
引用自 maelynx
引用自 Emerald Lance
Shaver does not increase the time that a part remains softened. However, the Fatalis update a week and a half ago doubled the time from a minute and a half to three minutes.
Wait, are you saying that even without Shaver the default duration of a softening is 3 minutes? If that's the case I'm taking off Shaver on most of my builds.
Shaver only makes light weapons tenderize in one hit and heavy weapons to drop Slinger ammo.

Softening time being double is just a Clutch Claw boost, non related to the skill.
mewlynx 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:25 
引用自 Kaldor Draigo
引用自 maelynx
Wait, are you saying that even without Shaver the default duration of a softening is 3 minutes? If that's the case I'm taking off Shaver on most of my builds.
Shaver only makes light weapons tenderize in one hit and heavy weapons to drop Slinger ammo.

Softening time being double is just a Clutch Claw boost, non related to the skill.
I need to revise like all my builds now, thanks for letting me know.
Greb 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:26 
Yeah, it mentioned in the patch notes when you booted up Iceborne for the first time after Fatalis hit that the duration of all softening had been increased, I just didn't know if the Shaver Jewel increased it even further or not. Guess I know now, at least!
Emerald Lance 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:35 
引用自 Greb
What I was asking / wondering was that maybe with a Shaver Jewel the first hit in the attack combo would instantly tenderise instead of needing to do the follow up heavy hit - it's a moot point anyway because you're committed once you launch the attack anyway and you can't cancel it, but it certainly would help when attempting to "brute force" a tenderised part or something, and you keep getting thrown off or something.
Sorry, I wouldn't know. Rocksteady and temporal mantles make getting thrown off the monster almost a moot point (with very few exceptions like Fatalis's belly flop).

I'm under the impression that a softened part is handled with a small integer (for light weapon double tapping) and a boolean flag (for the actual softening). Assuming that's the case, shaver likely acts on the integer and not the boolean. If the first strike of the hammer on clutch attack contributes in any way to the integer, then yeah, I would assume that shaver would work for it. Likewise, if only the followup drop is what contributes to the integer, then no, shaver would not help the initial hit.

Of course, this is all purely speculation. I don't actually know how it's coded in the game, just how I assume it is.
Greb 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:41 
Hmm, I'll test it next time I launch Monster Hunter I guess. Should be simple enough, meld a Shaver Jewel and then clutch attack that cart thing in the training area. If the thing softens on the first hit then I guess the Shaver Jewel effects it in that way!

It's just I've witnessed my first hit in the attack soften parts before, so I was curious is all. It'd basically change nothing, nothing at all, especially considering Rocksteady and Temporal mantles yes indeed and the fact the heavy follow up hit happens like half a second afterwards which is a guaranteed soften, but...curiosity is a fine thing :steammocking:
Zelph 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:47 
引用自 maelynx
引用自 Kaldor Draigo
Shaver only makes light weapons tenderize in one hit and heavy weapons to drop Slinger ammo.

Softening time being double is just a Clutch Claw boost, non related to the skill.
I need to revise like all my builds now, thanks for letting me know.
Having heavy weapons be able to get slinger ammo, or light weapons being able to tenderize in one shot is pretty huge.
Nerevar 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:48 
a few things for the tc :

head is always beta. never use alpha. not even on guard builds unless you only have trash tier decos. why? beta is always more flexible in the end. plus youre giveing up slot potenial with the alpha head due to stuff like release/ironwall beeing a thing for example for hbg shield builds. or other good guard combos which exist. head should always be beta. always.

chest.
always beta. alpha is crap. why? unless you need a buttload of level 3 decoslots for some reason (only a few weapons do) this is always a loss simply due to the coil you mentioned already yourself. the coil takes care of 2 level 3 deco slots. you rarely need more than that and unlike chest the coil is a net gain skillwise.

arms : IF useing raw weapons like LS the 3 handicraft is ALWAYS worth it. TRS with 20 purple IS NOT ENOUGH: YOULL RUN OUT in no time believe me. and slotwise its even with beta. the arms are actually one of only 2 pieces which TIE with beta pieces. aka they are literally the same as beta. but a lvl 1 slot is useful due to skill like attackbost as you dont wanna waste a level 4 slot on 1 level to max these out for example. so here its either beta or alpha. if useing raw melee weapons then definilty take the 3 handicraft levels.

coil : alpha is the clear winner here. and its the only piece where this applys. its a net gain of 1 free criteye at no loss. why? the shaver deco. it will steal a level 4 slot ANYWAY so its better to have a level 3 only to begin with (light weapons only ofc) the extra WEX removes the downside of loseing the 2nd level 4 slot and actually allows you to run 2 level 2+ skills in place of 1 level 4.

legs :

worst piece overall. but its only the 2nd tie piece. why? alpha and beta are 100% equal IF you own an handicraft+ deco. then its virtually the same no matter which piece and beta is more flexible due to beeing able to remove it.


fact is : certain melee weapons burn trough sharpness. the base 20 purple isnt enough with TRS. its not enough. you need a certain amount of handicraft to pevent haveing to sharpen. i am still unsure how much feels comfy for LS for example. but i think 3-4 is the sweet spot somewhere. 5 is overkill. 2 is not enough on longer hunts. higher sharpness bar means less prone to rng ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you out of your purple because TRS didnt trigger as TRS isnt a fixed % reduction. its chance based. rng. easy to see and test if you spam the LS cc weakening attack in the arena. it counts as one attack for the TRS trigger. so if it doesnt trigger say goodbye to like 10 sharpness at once.

also if useing frostfang piece for pdraw you want to use the head and use fatalis legs instead. kt is only more useful againist fatalis himself as it nulls the negative fireres and allows for easy 20 fireres with the hard fireres deco.

also come next weekend AT velk comes and its gamma legs provide all levels of peak performance AND 2 free levels of quick sheath. atleast for weapons like LS that will be a NET GAIN of 2 free levels of speed sheating at ZERO other skills lost. plus you gain a level 4 slot on the legs back as a side effect.


Emerald Lance 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:53 
引用自 Greb
Hmm, I'll test it next time I launch Monster Hunter I guess. Should be simple enough, meld a Shaver Jewel and then clutch attack that cart thing in the training area. If the thing softens on the first hit then I guess the Shaver Jewel effects it in that way!

It's just I've witnessed my first hit in the attack soften parts before, so I was curious is all. It'd basically change nothing, nothing at all, especially considering Rocksteady and Temporal mantles yes indeed and the fact the heavy follow up hit happens like half a second afterwards which is a guaranteed soften, but...curiosity is a fine thing :steammocking:
Going off my previous assumption, it is also possible that both hits contribute to the integer that dictates soften progress. Assuming the target integer is 2, and assuming light weapons deal 1 while heavy weapons deal 2. It's possible that this is split in two parts for some weapons like hammer that have two-part clutch attacks; the first swing would deal 1 and the followup would also deal 1, equaling 2 by the end of the attack. If that's the case, and if shave acts the way I posited, then it would make sense for the first swing to soften with shaver active.

Though, again, I wanna remind that, in practice, shaver is pretty much useless for heavy weapons since you'll do it in one anyway. It's such an expensive slot, and the practical uses of softening on the first tap instead of by the end of the full attack is so situationally applicable that the distinction may as well not exist, particularly considering temporal and rocksteady.

Of course, build the way you want. I'm not trying to tell you how to play. If that extra second of insurance is worth a lv3 jewel, then go for it! But do keep in mind that it is far from ideal.
最后由 Emerald Lance 编辑于; 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:57
jrubz 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:53 
引用自 Greb
Hey so I don't particularly follow the meta or the traditional damage > everything else style of building sets, but what makes Alpha better than Beta in terms of slot potential?

I'm only a Grug, me see bigger, more slot, me make bigger, more skill variety. Et cetera.

Explain it to me like I have a room temperature IQ, if you please. What gets wasted in terms of slot potential when comparing Waist and Legs Alpha and Beta? My smoothbrain has always had the idea that Alpha was for people without decorations, whereas Beta was for people with them, more flexibility with what they up with in a set.

I'll admit, I haven't even really looked at the Alpha version of Fatalis armour, I just saw piles and piles of Size 4 deco slots and my eyes began spinning in my head.

Here's my current generic Hammer build (pls no bully):
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/659722021491703808/764466362914963476/2704f82f385bfe6df184d8f4073a4d13.png
How would you in your infinitely superior wisdom improve this with Alpha pieces? I'd like to expand my knowledge, if you please!
in your setup, the alpha chest+ alpha waist are usually more flexible. The alpha chest just automatically gives a point into evasion, since so many 2 slot power decos come with a tag on skill with evasion, and it's already one of the skills that can effectively negate most damage and all roars at level 5 making it really easy to dodge everything, it's generally a better skill and lets you slot in Coalesence instead. One point into that helps all players dealing with status+blights by giving an automatic damage boost when getting hit by status conditions.

The Waist gives you the 3rd tenderizer without needing to use another decoration. The extra critical eye rounds off the build as well. For ensuring maximum critical damage as well, maximum might can be easily used with 5 points to gain a free 40% affinity with everything except bow and dual blades. Everything else will usually restore stamina by the time its necessary to deal critical damage. Since Maximum might is also another 2 slot power skill, it fits the 3 slots of the alpha waist without needing to waste points in another defensive skill.
Projection 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 1:57 
Full Fatalis armor beta:
Agitator max
Critical Eye max
Weakness Exploit max
Critical Boost boost max
Evade Window 4
Divine blessing 4
Tool specialist max
Offensive guard max
Attack boost 3/(max) (expandable with mantles)

for cb. I dont know what the meta is but this build works really well for pure raw dps.

I kinda like the mix of power and defense. You have great amplified dmg with the crit skills. Offensive guard is a must for cb and if you miss your timing divine blessing and evade window does make your mistakes less punishing. It is kinda generic Ik.
最后由 Projection 编辑于; 2020 年 10 月 10 日 下午 2:02
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发帖日期: 2020 年 10 月 10 日 上午 11:52
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