Frost Fang Barioth and Shields

[Decoy]

I've only fought him twice, once with a very mobile charge blade and again with a very stationary gunlance. Half of the moves in his arsenal exist to just ♥♥♥♥ shield users.

I run Guard 5 and Guard up and none that does me a bit of good if the monster is going constantly spew essentially unavoidable frost that makes me drop my shield. Gunlance isn't a mobile weapon. I have Evasion Extender 3, but still, my hops don't cover a lot of ground.

I'm genuinely unsure of how GL users are supposed to deal with this. Aside from switch to a more mobile weapon.

[JonDon]

Publicado originalmente por AfLIcTeD:

Publicado originalmente por Shift:

Most people who defend that the lance is fine either never played with it or do but never realized how much of a dead weight they are to the hunt. Indeed, lances got the short end on iceborne to an extent it's not even funny.

It now deals less elemental damage, requires way more deco to be of use, got indirectly nerfed face the ever increasing amount of chip damage and unblockable attacks that ignore even the 'can block unblockables' skill and got even more nerfed due to the increased monsters mobility.

Seriously, there's no incentive to play lance right now instead of gun lance or capcom most favorite son: 'the charge blade'. There's something wrong when the weapon designed to block/counter begin to require that you to block less and dodge more.

Actually you will find that most lance mains have no issue with it the way it is. It is those that dabble in it that complain how weak it is. It doesn't require any more decos than other weapons. The only skill a lance needs extra is guard, the rest is your usual dps/defence skills.

As a lance main I can keep up with if not beat others in the group in dps and I cart a lot less.

Just because you're better than the people that you play with doesn't mean the game is balanced. Furthermore, the skill of the people that you play with is a terrible indicator of how good either you or your weapon are.

[Decoy]

Publicado originalmente por Nicovahkiin:

Gunlance, stationary ? You can have more mobility than any weapon and constantly be on the monster's a$s

...

I can't tell if you're making a joke that I don't get or just have never used gunlance.

[Aelin Galathynius]

Publicado originalmente por JonDon:

Publicado originalmente por Recel:

A honest question: Does Lances dodge have any iframe to them? Is it affected by evade window?

The more unblockable things I meet, or stuff on the ground the more I feel I just want to exchange guard skills for evade extender and if it works evade window.

(which still partially defeats the point of having a shield...)

EDIT: Well, thinking about it, it would just make the weapon even worse. You'd still want some guard and guard up for attacks you can block, but you'd also now need evade skills for stuff you can't, meaning even less space for other skills.

Yes, the lance hop does have iframes (although I'm not sure how many tbh). And Evade Window will increase the iframes for the hop. Like you said though, if you're building for blocking, which you most likely will have to anyways, then you might as well just go that route. The only time I ever used evade window with lance was back in base game when AT Nergigante came out. Many monsters have a lot of moves with extended hit boxes and it is not viable to dodge them with lance.

Basic roll/hbg roll/bow charging side step have 13 frames
Lance/gunlance/swaxe hop dodge have 10 frames
DB demon mode dash has 14 frames
SnS back hop 22 frames
LS Foresight Slash has 45 frames

So yes the lance hop does have iframes.


There is a table with what dodges have what Iframes with every level of evade window and mantle here
https://youtu.be/cmhPbtpH6Ts?t=562

[Saber]

Publicado originalmente por Nicovahkiin:

Gunlance, stationary ? You can have more mobility than any weapon and constantly be on the monster's a$s

That's literally Lance. Not Gunlance.

[Nicovahkiin]

Publicado originalmente por Gen:

Publicado originalmente por Nicovahkiin:

Gunlance, stationary ? You can have more mobility than any weapon and constantly be on the monster's a$s

That's literally Lance. Not Gunlance.

I can assure you, that's Gunlance. Evade extender 3, Constitution 3 to 5, and you're constantly on the monster.

[GunRunner89X]

Lance at least needs a damage buff to put it on equal standing with the main hitters (CB, HBG, etc). Personally I think the Lance's guarding abilities have been let down by Capcom. I mean you can block supernovas from everything except Alatreon just with Guard Up, but a simple claw/pounce attack by Zinogre/Deviljho or even Frozioth's new ice attack and you're completely defenceless even with Guard 5 and Guard Up? I mean what the hell is the point of Power Guard even when it defends against nothing more than what you can defend with just G Up and G 5?

[Saber]

Publicado originalmente por Gun-Runner89X:

Lance at least needs a damage buff to put it on equal standing with the main hitters (CB, HBG, etc). Personally I think the Lance's guarding abilities have been let down by Capcom. I mean you can block supernovas from everything except Alatreon just with Guard Up, but a simple claw/pounce attack by Zinogre/Deviljho or even Frozioth's new ice attack and you're completely defenceless even with Guard 5 and Guard Up? I mean what the hell is the point of Power Guard even when it defends against nothing more than what you can defend with just G Up and G 5?

Weapons have strengths and weaknesses against different monsters.

I sure as hell am not using Dual Blades against Azure Rathalos.

[Recel]

Publicado originalmente por Aelin Galathynius:

Basic roll/hbg roll/bow charging side step have 13 frames
Lance/gunlance/swaxe hop dodge have 10 frames
DB demon mode dash has 14 frames
SnS back hop 22 frames
LS Foresight Slash has 45 frames

So yes the lance hop does have iframes.


There is a table with what dodges have what Iframes with every level of evade window and mantle here
https://youtu.be/cmhPbtpH6Ts?t=562

That video is super helpful, thank you!

[Monika]

With CB, just stick to his side. Most of his ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hits in front and at mid distance. Always being close to his side will save you from the frost or atleast give you room to roll away when its coming.
I have not tried GL against him but I assume back hops will help a lot instead of the regular hops. You just have to put extra effort with where you face.

[r∞l]

Publicado originalmente por Shift:

Most people who defend that the lance is fine either never played with it or do but never realized how much of a dead weight they are to the hunt. Indeed, lances got the short end on iceborne to an extent it's not even funny.

It now deals less elemental damage, requires way more deco to be of use, got indirectly nerfed face the ever increasing amount of chip damage and unblockable attacks that ignore even the 'can block unblockables' skill and got even more nerfed due to the increased monsters mobility.

Seriously, there's no incentive to play lance right now instead of gun lance or capcom most favorite son: 'the charge blade'. There's something wrong when the weapon designed to block/counter begin to require that you to block less and dodge more.

Agreed, anyone who has truly used the lance knows it was in a bad spot for base game and instead of getting buffs for iceborne it indirectly got nerfs lol.

Capcom does not favor CB, it has received more nerfs than any other weapon.
CB is strong but it does require a bit of work to unleash its true potential.