On Alatreon and why the problem isn't the damage check

[Potion Seller]

I'll start off by saying that while I'm not particularly fond of DPS checks, I also don't hate the mechanic in the Alatreon fight like a lot of other people do.
IMHO most of his attacks are easy enough to avoid, and the Elemental damage check serves as motivation to not stall the fight too much.
However, I still think there is a fundamental flaw in how the fight was designed and that's the dependancy on a SINGLE element.

If Alatreon was costantly switching weakness to a particular element but while always being vulnerable to all of them I would have no issues with it, but as it stands now, I feel like the burden of knowledge on the player is too high.
Basically if you enter the fight with the wrong weapon, you have to cart.

There are actually 2 checks in the Alatreon fight .
The Eschaton Judgment DPS check is obvious, but if you fail to break the horn during the Dragon Phase, you will still cart 5-10 minutes later because you won't be able to clear the elemental DPS check with the opposite element.
Of course, you could bring dragon and you would be golden just with the DPS check (since, if you can reliably hit the threshold with dragon you can do it regardless of element), but I feel like at this point the fight is overloaded with mechanics you need to know BEFORE actually entering the fight.

IMHO, while keeping the same difficulty (amount of damage needed), it would have been better if Alatreon was vulnerable to elements with varying degrees of effectiveness through all the fight OR Farcasters should have been made available outside of the Eschaton Judgement animation (like they did with Behemoth).

INB4 git gud. My issues is not with the moves or damage but only with how you are forced to tackle the encounter in a forced way, either going elemental+Horns or going dragon element to avoid mandatory carting.

[kampfer91]

It is the choice between not having to worry about horn breaking or taking the risk to kill him faster .
If you choose to use fire / ice , you better have the skill to clear elemental damage threshold quick and the ability to hit the horn precisely .

[Potion Seller]

Originally posted by kampfer91:

It is the choice between not having to worry about horn breaking or taking the risk to kill him faster .
If you choose to use fire / ice , you better have the skill to clear elemental damage threshold quick and the ability to hit the horn precisely .

Actually, Ice and Fire (when correct) makes hitting the threshold EASIER but at the cost of having to gamble on wether you actually manage to destroy the horn.
Dragon on the other hand lets you completely ignore the head (unless you have an opening) and play more "on your terms" while also being able (in theory) of clearing elemental damage checks.

[Greb]

The only flaw with Alatreon is the MR requirement and the fact there's no Positively Dashing Deviljho™ in a top hat, monocle and wielding a cane who immediately one shots and eats anyone joining the quest with a Blast or other non-elemental weapon

[XenoEvil]

All you need to know is to read the description of the quest to know what element alatreon will start the fight in. Once you understand that and can effectively hit alatreon, you should never have to worry about alatreon switching to the same element as your weapon ever.

[Potion Seller]

Originally posted by XenoEvil:

All you need to know is to read the description of the quest to know what element alatreon will start the fight in. Once you understand that and can effectively hit alatreon, you should never have to worry about alatreon switching to the same element as your weapon ever.

I don't think they also mention that you will cart if you don't break the horn.

[XenoEvil]

Originally posted by Drifter:

Originally posted by XenoEvil:

All you need to know is to read the description of the quest to know what element alatreon will start the fight in. Once you understand that and can effectively hit alatreon, you should never have to worry about alatreon switching to the same element as your weapon ever.

I don't think they also mention that you will cart if you don't break the horn.

The horns have nothing to do with escaton judgement. The horns are tie to alatreon's element switch. If you are knocking alatreon down, you will know you are passing the dsp check and will survive escaton judgment.

[♋Phenex]

Originally posted by Drifter:

Originally posted by XenoEvil:

All you need to know is to read the description of the quest to know what element alatreon will start the fight in. Once you understand that and can effectively hit alatreon, you should never have to worry about alatreon switching to the same element as your weapon ever.

I don't think they also mention that you will cart if you don't break the horn.

Cause that's not a thing. The only thing horn break is for is to lock alatreon into an element as well as get an extra material.

If using something like the alatreon or luna LBG, it's probably better to leave the horns alone until nearly out of ammo so that you can lock the element into the weakness you have ammo for and only breaking when it's near death.

[Potion Seller]

Originally posted by XenoEvil:

Originally posted by Drifter:

I don't think they also mention that you will cart if you don't break the horn.

The horns have nothing to do with escaton judgement. The horns are tie to alatreon's element switch. If you are knocking alatreon down, you will know you are passing the dsp check and will survive escaton judgment.

but if you don't break the horns on an ice/fire weapon you are gonna cart at the next Eschaton Judgment.

[Lucathegreat]

In solo you must die even if you somehow manage to pass the dps check, because then he'll change the element. And you have the wrong equip.
How some randumbs are still defending something like this is baffling.

[Juliane_L]

Originally posted by Lucathegreat:

In solo you must die even if you somehow manage to pass the dps check, because then he'll change the element. And you have the wrong equip.
How some randumbs are still defending something like this is baffling.

not if you break horns, or take either an ice, thunder or dragon weapon.

[Shinshe]

i did solo couple of runs with HH u need to attack his hands first till hes stunned after the nova only break 1 horn so he dont switch to the element u using after breaking horn dps him till hes stunned should be dead after 2nd nova.

[Potion Seller]

Originally posted by Juliane_L:

Originally posted by Lucathegreat:

In solo you must die even if you somehow manage to pass the dps check, because then he'll change the element. And you have the wrong equip.
How some randumbs are still defending something like this is baffling.

not if you break horns, or take either an ice, thunder or dragon weapon.

If you take an Ice or Fire weapon, and you fail to break the horn, you are going to cart, period.
There is no save mechanic, if the horn is not broken, he will switch the element, and you won't deal elemental damage.
Dragon is somewhat more reliable, but has less effectiveness overall so you need to be even better at DPS if you run dragon (or have a better Dragon Attack Setup to offset the lesser vulnerability to that element).

[Zhou Yu]

This still sounds like a problem with the dps check. Because without it you’d be able to use whatever element you wanted. Instead of dying because you couldn’t deal any elemental damage, you would instead simply be carrying on with the fight whilst dealing no elemental damage till he switches element form again. One of these situations is a lot more dire than the other.

[Popcorn]

Originally posted by Zhou Yu:

This still sounds like a problem with the dps check. Because without it you’d be able to use whatever element you wanted. Instead of dying because you couldn’t deal any elemental damage, you would instead simply be carrying on with the fight whilst dealing no elemental damage till he switches element form again. One of these situations is a lot more dire than the other.

Everyone will just go the normal sets, then complain "such a boring fight, useless armor, not worth my time" type of thing again

[Potion Seller]

Originally posted by Zhou Yu:

This still sounds like a problem with the dps check. Because without it you’d be able to use whatever element you wanted. Instead of dying because you couldn’t deal any elemental damage, you would instead simply be carrying on with the fight whilst dealing no elemental damage till he switches element form again. One of these situations is a lot more dire than the other.

I don't think you get it.
That's not the DPS check. If you have a weapon of the correct element and brilliantly clear the DPS check but fail to break the horn, the next cycle you will deal zero elemental damage (or really close to zero) and fail.

Is it possible to clear the DPS check with the wrong element? I really don't think so, unless hacking or some extreme speedrunner with a near perfect run and no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ from alatreon.
Making a rough estimate from the stars weakness on the hunters note, if with Fire and Ice you have 4 stars in total of vulnerability, you will go from 100% to 33% , while with Water or Thunder on the wrong cycle you will always have 33%.

Cutting it short.

Fire and Ice have 3 stars in phase and 0 star in counter phase, with 1 star in Dragon Phase.
In phase average is 2, counter phase average is 0.5. So roughly a quarter.

Dragon is always 2 stars.
So it always averages, but it never excels, (thus being more reliable)


Water and Thunder have 2 stars in phase and 1 star in counter phase, with 1 star in Dragon Phase. So they have a little less efficiency in phase, but are still terrible in counter phase. If you have videos with people clearing the counterphase solo with Water/Thunder weapons I'd like to see them, but I don't think that it's possible.