On Alatreon: when too many becomes too much

[Mander]

Hi all,
After a day (more o less) spent with Alatreon, I wanted to share my thoughts on the new black dragon.
First things first: I consider myself a somewhat decent player. Not really a speed-runner, but not a beginner either.
I do not think Alatreon unfair: unfun maybe, but not really unfair. Alatreon is a challenging monster with many attack’s pattern and some interesting mechanics. But at the same time, it possesses too many points of strength, imo.
It has:
1) Superior Mobility
2) Superior Aerial Mobility
3) AoE attacks: way TOO many
4) Mix and match of elemental and melee combos able to shred a hunter with HB 3 with no
problem
5) TOO fast: Alatreon do not offer windows of opportunity for landing an attack. If you fail to capitalize a window of opportunity, you get shredded.
6) Denial of the clutch claw mechanic (more or less). It’s basically too hard to tenderize a part, because:
a. It moves away immediately and the movement register as an attack, so you drop down
b. Many of its attacks (i.e. conjuring of lightnings) register as multiple attacks, so even with
temporal mantle, you fail to tenderize and you receive damage (happened so many times)
7) Melee attacks able to inflict dragon blight which ties quite diabolically with the following
point:
8) A gate mechanic tied to elemental damage: if you fail to reach the check, you wipe, period (nova)
9) A considerable number of life points (114k in multiplayer, more o less?)

If too many gods ruin a pantheon, how many advantages are needed to ruin a monster?
Imo, something has to give: Alatreon could be fun and remain a challenge. At the moment though it’s only a chore.
Your thoughts?

[Saber]

Git gud.

[Mander]

Originally posted by Gen:

Git gud.

I didn't realize talking about the Avatar of all elements would have conjured an avatar of imbecility. I feel SO much smarter already.

[Caaros]

Seriously don't have any of the motivation to even try and beat Alatreon in its current state. It's practically Extremoth 2.0 with the sheer amount of stuff you have to juggle perfectly at any given time. Not to mention how the nature of the elemental DPS check makes every raw-focused weapon in the game, such as Hammer, Greatsword, and Lance just to name a small few, so detrimentally bad against him.

Alatreon didn't need a DPS check instant failure move in order to be difficult and challenging, but they gave it to him anyways, instead opting to make a fight that's just totally unreasonable and downright inconsiderate and alienating to many players.

[Saber]

Originally posted by Mander:

Originally posted by Gen:

Git gud.

I didn't realize talking about the Avatar of all elements would have conjured an avatar of imbecility. I feel SO much smarter already.

Alatreon is difficult, yes, but far from impossible.

If you have an elemental build with one of the few fantastic element-dealing weapons, then Alatreon becomes very doable, maybe even easy, even in multiplayer.

Like I said, git gud.

[Calan]

Alatreon would be perfect without the elemental check death nuke. Seriously how do capcom keep making great fights like behemoth then ♥♥♥♥ it all up adding retarded MMO-tier mechanics like damage checks. yes I've beaten behemoth and Alatreon and they would be great fights if not for the retarded nuke mechanics from some ♥♥♥♥♥♥ WoW raid

[Greb]

It's a decent challenge, that took me and my group 8 hours before killing it, getting slightly closer each time. The more you fight it, the more you begin to appreciate how it was designed, a lot of the hitboxes are actually pretty damn generous, all things considered, and it doesn't possess any tremor, wind pressure, pinning / grab attacks, and it can't trip you or cause damage by running into you, which reduces the amount of rage inducing stuff it can do.

The fight became a lot less annoying when I just bit the bullet and slotted in Dragon Resistance 3 into my set, too. It only applies Dragonblight on melee attacks or the element shift, but it was enough that it became annoying especially when you don't notice you've been blighted and waste some DPS, etc.

I use the Hammer, which at this point is basically married to the clutch claw, and I was able to keep the thing tenderised pretty much throughout the entire fight without issue - without mantles, since I was bringing Health Booster+ and Cleanser Booster+ - without being thrown off or dying to it, although sure if I tried spamming clutch claw grabs to get an aerial flinch I'd often get wrecked, lol.

Mobility doesn't seem that bad, although it does like to prance around with some of its attacks, and especially annoying when airborne, but honestly I can't remember having any negative thoughts about it being akin to Kushala Daora or anything. Seemed like an easy monster to keep up with, nipping its legs and bashing its head when it dared to stand still long enough.

AoE attacks are its bread and butter, that's kind of its thing. Most of them are easy to avoid, the only ones that routinely nail me are the sweeping ones when he flies in the air and sprays a beam around in a circle, especially the oily water attack, that's so annoying! Everything else is absurdly easy to dodge, really generous hitboxes, and I've never used Evade Extender / Evade Window type sets.

Gate mechanic sucks until you figure out how to deal with it - pretty much having any "dead weight" team members in your group is a big no-no. When my group first began fighting it, I was using an Fire SnS without any elemental damage boosts, I was pure Wide-Range build, trying to keep blights down and health up etc, and it was a coin toss if we'd hit the DPS check or not. Once I dropped that and made a Hammer build using Alatreons Hammer, the fights began going extremely smoothly, and we haven't missed any DPS checks in ages. Need to make sure everyone is contributing, I think.

Lots of HP but, not really any more difficult than a typical Arch Tempered Elder Dragon. At the rate we were killing it, it would do a nova at 6 minutes, 12 minutes and 18 minutes - followed shortly by dying. It's not a long fight, and there's plenty of time to meet the DPS check, at least it feels like it to me. YES, it took us like 30+ fails and 8 hours before we figured this out lol, but still...it was a kind of fun, if frustrating time.

I guess I'm biased - I haven't tried soloing it or attempting the fight with randumbs, I imagine that would test someones patience extremely quickly, lol.

Altogether though I like the fight, myself. The music is a little lacking and so is the end of the fight, it needs an ULTIMATE moment like Kulve Taroth with orchestrial music and a balls to the walls moment where it's tooth and claw, in my opinion. When it dies...it just dies. So anticlimax after all that work, lol.

Plus it's cute, it has a cute little beak and makes cute chirpy noises when it's coughing up its oily spew...how can anyone hate that?

[Frost Dragonheart]

That's just it! The fight is hard enough without the Nova, but the Nova just feeds into the difficulty. It forces everyone to fight over-aggressively to try and reach the DPS check which often just leads to making bad choices and fatal mistakes. Then when the DPS check is inevitably not met you lose anyways. Who thought that was a good idea?!

[DoEFotGS]

Alatreon itself is perfect. Artificial limitations is not.

I beat Alatreon in my sixth try solo. Beat him in duo with friend. ♥♥♥♥ mechanics become better of this fact? No, it's still ♥♥♥♥. His nova is a big '♥♥♥♥ you' with no reason.

[Polaris]

With behemoth it made sense, as that was a cross over with an MMO, and I actually like some of the MMO mechanics including the sieges, but in those sieges and behemoth, everyweapon could contribute,
With Alatreon, there are many weapons that CAN contribute, but no where near optimally, and it won't just lead to a longer or less optimal hunt, but a full party wipe, so if you SOS, and you pair with 2 guys running blast greatswords...better luck next run, with behemoth, even sub-optimal weapons were possible

[rina]

The fight it self is actually quite fun, the thing is supposed to be a god so I expected to fight a god and I actually enjoy fighting it. Alatreon has plenty of windows to do damage as long as you don't unga bunga, if you unga bunga you're gonna eat dirt.

The nova is problematic but after fighting it a whole bunch of times solo, with randumbs and an organised team, it becomes less annoying to the point where we're killing it before it has a chance to do the 2nd nuke.

With that said, I do sympathize with people who solo and main raw weapons as you guys got the short end of the stick with this monster.

[Saber]

Originally posted by Lumika:

The fight it self is actually quite fun, the thing is supposed to be a god so I expected to fight a god and I actually enjoy fighting it. Alatreon has plenty of windows to do damage as long as you don't unga bunga, if you unga bunga you're gonna eat dirt.

The nova is problematic but after fighting it a whole bunch of times solo, with randumbs and an organised team, it becomes less annoying to the point where we're killing it before it has a chance to do the 2nd nuke.

With that said, I do sympathize with people who solo and main raw weapons as you guys got the short end of the stick with this monster.

Admittedly I was a raw main myself, however I'm not so stubborn as to not adapt to the situation.

[Greb]

Originally posted by Gen:

Admittedly I was a raw main myself, however I'm not so stubborn as to not adapt to the situation.

Pretty much. I've been grumbling since Iceborne came out about how Capcom hates non-elemental stuff, this is no surprise, but I adapted. Fine, fine Capcom, have it your way! Sheesh.

This final monster being added in Autumn or whatever better have raw viable weapons, damn it.

[Maffeketel]

I love the fight, but the nova aspect completely ruins it for me. The amount of elemental damage needed to weaken the nova is just way too high right now and it really needs to be turned down.
A lot of weapons simply aren't viable against him due to this mechanic and it makes the fight extremely frustrating for me personally.
Even with a fully specced elemental build it can be quite hard to trigger the knockdown and the weakened nova and some weapons can't be used against him due to their low elemental damage output.

I absolutely love this game, but this is the first monster since MR Kushala Daora that I would consider to be poorly designed overall. I'm still trying to beat him solo and as soon as I beat him I will probably not fight him again as I do not find this fight fun unfortunately.
There are a lot of complaints concerning his nova so Capcom might adjust it a bit in a future patch based on this feedback. I hope they'll consider it as that is the only thing that detracts from an otherwise amazing fight.

[kampfer91]

While i understand your frustration , but that is why MH is unique , you slam into a hard wall and then after find a way to deal with the adversary you feel satisfied .

After a whole DAY getting cart left and right , i just beat it solo with Kjarr Ice CB , never feel so happy .

And yes you have to be very aggressive for this one , a great offense is a great defense . You have to " dance " and be respond to Ala attack .

[Maffeketel]

Originally posted by kampfer91:

While i understand your frustration , but that is why MH is unique , you slam into a hard wall and then after find a way to deal with the adversary you feel satisfied .

After a whole DAY getting cart left and right , i just beat it solo with Kjarr Ice CB , never feel so happy .

And yes you have to be very aggressive for this one , a great offense is a great defense . You have to " dance " and be respond to Ala attack .

Could you share the build that youre using as I'm also attempting him with the Kjarr ice CB and I haven't managed to beat him yet. Maybe there's something in my build that could use some improvement. I assume that it's a good idea to increase the ice attack of the weapon?