Rocksteady + ZSD Spam Required to play Switch Axe?

[Fraktal]

Seems every youtube video has this ♥♥♥♥ in it.

Is this normally done in non-speed run hunts?

[Fraktal]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vaisnac:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

In multiplayer with higher thresholds power axe isn't as stellar as in solo play. I'm trying to do a hybrid of the two. ZSD spam only when RS Mantle is available, normal play rest of the hunt. And no I don't stack maintenance decos.

Also many builds spam the same move over and over, how many SnS players use the shield bomb move over and over to stagger and then use perfect rush when monster is down?

Oh, i know bout other wpn spams, but i prefer keeping my mantles as an insurance rather than abuse it...altho the dude did say that mantle are "cheats" in the game and would rather not use them, hes talking about spamming them too now, huh, who knew

Sometimes I use them proactively. Like extra resistances for Nami.

[JPM岩]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Thighs and Glasses:

https://youtu.be/pbU-ElgcSy8
my scrub self would do it a lot in base game. Just with pre-nerf Temporal Mantle.

Lol drunk hunting. I should try it!

IDK bout drunk hunting, but hunting high is p good too.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vaisnac:

Cuz those who ZSD spam are scrubs like the gluttonn 2.0 users.

I know, i know, ppl want it EZPZ, but srsly, how are u supposed to ACTUALLY learn the wpn if u just spam the same move over and over?

Im not a SwAxe main, but i prefer the powered up axe mode over the ZSD spam

In multiplayer with higher thresholds power axe isn't as stellar as in solo play. I'm trying to do a hybrid of the two. ZSD spam only when RS Mantle is available, normal play rest of the hunt. And no I don't stack maintenance decos.

Also many builds spam the same move over and over, how many SnS players use the shield bomb move over and over to stagger and then use perfect rush when monster is down?

Power Axe is still stupidly strong when it comes to MP. You just have to hit the same parts with it a little bit longer. If youre using Safi Kj, youll for sure want to be heavily in Sword Form.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vaisnac:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

In multiplayer with higher thresholds power axe isn't as stellar as in solo play. I'm trying to do a hybrid of the two. ZSD spam only when RS Mantle is available, normal play rest of the hunt. And no I don't stack maintenance decos.

Also many builds spam the same move over and over, how many SnS players use the shield bomb move over and over to stagger and then use perfect rush when monster is down?

Oh, i know bout other wpn spams, but i prefer keeping my mantles as an insurance rather than abuse it...altho the dude did say that mantle are "cheats" in the game and would rather not use them, hes talking about spamming them too now, huh, who knew

I'd say at this point, RS is the mantle thats the strongest, but I know folks who die easy with it and hate it. Temporal honestly got balanced out well.
I personally use RS and Glider together, but apparently, even Vitality is worth using again.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vaisnac:

Oh, i know bout other wpn spams, but i prefer keeping my mantles as an insurance rather than abuse it...altho the dude did say that mantle are "cheats" in the game and would rather not use them, hes talking about spamming them too now, huh, who knew

Sometimes I use them proactively. Like extra resistances for Nami.

ATs seem to really bring out the need for the Elemental Mantles.

Also, I'm done bothering with EastCliff, it's like watching a grown man struggle to put a circle in a square hole. I cant believe I had family die in Korea for 50 years of evolution to result in this.

[Fraktal]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JPM岩:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Lol drunk hunting. I should try it!

IDK bout drunk hunting, but hunting high is p good too.

I’m subject to random screenings

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

In multiplayer with higher thresholds power axe isn't as stellar as in solo play. I'm trying to do a hybrid of the two. ZSD spam only when RS Mantle is available, normal play rest of the hunt. And no I don't stack maintenance decos.

Also many builds spam the same move over and over, how many SnS players use the shield bomb move over and over to stagger and then use perfect rush when monster is down?

Power Axe is still stupidly strong when it comes to MP. You just have to hit the same parts with it a little bit longer. If youre using Safi Kj, youll for sure want to be heavily in Sword Form.

I noticed a 500 pt crit on a tender part yesterday during a hunt (detonation). Was like wtf!!

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vaisnac:

Oh, i know bout other wpn spams, but i prefer keeping my mantles as an insurance rather than abuse it...altho the dude did say that mantle are "cheats" in the game and would rather not use them, hes talking about spamming them too now, huh, who knew

I'd say at this point, RS is the mantle thats the strongest, but I know folks who die easy with it and hate it. Temporal honestly got balanced out well.
I personally use RS and Glider together, but apparently, even Vitality is worth using again.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Sometimes I use them proactively. Like extra resistances for Nami.

ATs seem to really bring out the need for the Elemental Mantles.

Also, I'm done bothering with EastCliff, it's like watching a grown man struggle to put a circle in a square hole. I cant believe I had family die in Korea for 50 years of evolution to result in this.

That last bit almost had me drench my monitor in Sprite! Lol

Edit: I messed up quoting, some of my text is inside the quote wtf.

[puzzlefox]

But dat cicada build doe

[Fraktal]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von puzzlefox:

But dat cicada build doe

Lol ikr?

I dislike all sleep weapons so that’s a hard pass for me.

[EastCLiff]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JPM岩:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Lol drunk hunting. I should try it!

IDK bout drunk hunting, but hunting high is p good too.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

In multiplayer with higher thresholds power axe isn't as stellar as in solo play. I'm trying to do a hybrid of the two. ZSD spam only when RS Mantle is available, normal play rest of the hunt. And no I don't stack maintenance decos.

Also many builds spam the same move over and over, how many SnS players use the shield bomb move over and over to stagger and then use perfect rush when monster is down?

Power Axe is still stupidly strong when it comes to MP. You just have to hit the same parts with it a little bit longer. If youre using Safi Kj, youll for sure want to be heavily in Sword Form.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vaisnac:

Oh, i know bout other wpn spams, but i prefer keeping my mantles as an insurance rather than abuse it...altho the dude did say that mantle are "cheats" in the game and would rather not use them, hes talking about spamming them too now, huh, who knew

I'd say at this point, RS is the mantle thats the strongest, but I know folks who die easy with it and hate it. Temporal honestly got balanced out well.
I personally use RS and Glider together, but apparently, even Vitality is worth using again.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Sometimes I use them proactively. Like extra resistances for Nami.

ATs seem to really bring out the need for the Elemental Mantles.

Also, I'm done bothering with EastCliff, it's like watching a grown man struggle to put a circle in a square hole. I cant believe I had family die in Korea for 50 years of evolution to result in this.

So where is your 'DATA' ?
Yeah there could be no one because you don't have it.
Runing off from disadvantageous situation.
Very clever act without mental damage.

[jrubz]

No.

Y>Y>Y>B>B>B is a good swordmode combo with the Kulve elemental axes.
With the raw axes, axe mode wild axe combos are also extremely viable.

[Popcorn]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EastCLiff:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JPM岩:

IDK bout drunk hunting, but hunting high is p good too.


Power Axe is still stupidly strong when it comes to MP. You just have to hit the same parts with it a little bit longer. If youre using Safi Kj, youll for sure want to be heavily in Sword Form.


I'd say at this point, RS is the mantle thats the strongest, but I know folks who die easy with it and hate it. Temporal honestly got balanced out well.
I personally use RS and Glider together, but apparently, even Vitality is worth using again.


ATs seem to really bring out the need for the Elemental Mantles.

Also, I'm done bothering with EastCliff, it's like watching a grown man struggle to put a circle in a square hole. I cant believe I had family die in Korea for 50 years of evolution to result in this.

So where is your 'DATA' ?
Yeah there could be no one because you don't have it.
Runing off from disadvantageous situation.
Very clever act without mental damage.

Can u contact the YTer to give us some English captions? Idk

[Squidvasion]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von EastCLiff:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zelph:

What the hell does this comment even have to do with anything.

Also, sure, we are going to believe some random guy spouting nonsense over someone who actually has an in-depth guide about the weapon.

I'm not attacking you but I wish that you and other guys in this post should recognize some people are Frog in the well.

When your SA grand master recommended ACIDIC GLAV SA and SHARA set ZSD mixup, LMAO was started and didn't finished.
Lunastra-Cicada was very trendy in early days. Actually, almost EVERY SA players became ZSD spammer with this set BUT He don't even recognize it. LMAO.

EastCLiff, you're a smart person and likely good at this game, I don't think anyone is trying to bash your theories or trash on your suggestions or the Korean players you follow, but you say you aren't attacking us, then your words say otherwise and you proceed to attack us. Relax

Again, we have to circle back to the purpose of this thread, and even the purpose of JPM's guide.

OP asked for non speed run suggestions, and JPM's guide is heavily focused on training NEW players, so I'm not sure why you're trying to tear down his work. It's a big wealth of knowledge and has tons of great points in it and will help anyone looking to improve their SA game a lot. All you're doing now is splitting hairs over what you believe is the absolute best and most meta builds possible for the SA.

I watched the vids you linked and the players are all playing well and showcasing expert SA skills, but nothing said or shown is making me question the validity of a guide like JPM's. I even have gripes with a few points JPM makes (EE3 vs no EE3 etc etc) but I'm not going to sit here and talk like not using EE3 is a sin. I've tried a few times without EE3 and it feels so weird to me that i doubt i will ever be able to not use it.

I'm not a speedrunner but I have tried to do some speedruns, and even have a few very quick kill times I'm proud of (on a personal level, not quite up to snuff with the pros). It's possible to kill quick without using the absolute ultimate omega meta build that the speedrun community uses. The difference between using a setup like JPM's or a setup like Cicada is barely noticeable if you're playing at your peak.

[Fraktal]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JRubz:

No.

Y>Y>Y>B>B>B is a good swordmode combo with the Kulve elemental axes.
With the raw axes, axe mode wild axe combos are also extremely viable.

Even considering rocksteady plus health augment safety while latched?

How long does it take to do that 6 button combo? I feel like I’d cart against a monster that isn’t down doing that.

[Squidvasion]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JRubz:

No.

Y>Y>Y>B>B>B is a good swordmode combo with the Kulve elemental axes.
With the raw axes, axe mode wild axe combos are also extremely viable.

Even considering rocksteady plus health augment safety while latched?

How long does it take to do that 6 button combo? I feel like I’d cart against a monster that isn’t down doing that.

yeah that combo is definitely during an opening. best quick attacks for sword are just hitting B (or circle on a ps4 controller) once, for the double slash, then side hop out of the animation to avoid a hit.

I'm almost always in axe mode though and pretty much only use upswing/downswing until a stagger the monster or topple it over. Upswing/downswing/fadeswing are super strong for just poking endlessly with really low risk as you can quickly hop out of the way afterwords.

Try fighting an Anjanath/Fulgur Anjanath with just axe mode and bonk its head with upswings/downswings and you will be surprised at how often it flinches and falls over just from that alone. Oh, I should mention that you want to power up axe mode (3 wild swings and then the downswing). This makes flinching even easier. I will just swing and hit the air if I have to just so I'm in powered up state.

[Fraktal]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Squidvasion:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Even considering rocksteady plus health augment safety while latched?

How long does it take to do that 6 button combo? I feel like I’d cart against a monster that isn’t down doing that.

yeah that combo is definitely during an opening. best quick attacks for sword are just hitting B (or circle on a ps4 controller) once, for the double slash, then side hop out of the animation to avoid a hit.

I'm almost always in axe mode though and pretty much only use upswing/downswing until a stagger the monster or topple it over. Upswing/downswing/fadeswing are super strong for just poking endlessly with really low risk as you can quickly hop out of the way afterwords.

Try fighting an Anjanath/Fulgur Anjanath with just axe mode and bonk its head with upswings/downswings and you will be surprised at how often it flinches and falls over just from that alone. Oh, I should mention that you want to power up axe mode (3 wild swings and then the downswing). This makes flinching even easier. I will just swing and hit the air if I have to just so I'm in powered up state.

Just did three Tigrex quests in a row "Absolute Power" helping lowbies. Having trouble being able to dip in and out during the things endless attacks whilst still doing damage. Forget trying to ZSD at all unless its down or you have Rocksteady on.

Also forget trying to power up your axe unless the thing is exhausted or down either.

I hate getting hit, why I like my Lance/GL so much.

Edit:

So I watched this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIwoUPpOY3A&t=156s

I have no doubt I could manage that in solo play, in multiplayer the monsters have higher thresholds to meet before staggering. Guess I'll have to weave in and out better.

[JPM岩]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Squidvasion:

yeah that combo is definitely during an opening. best quick attacks for sword are just hitting B (or circle on a ps4 controller) once, for the double slash, then side hop out of the animation to avoid a hit.

I'm almost always in axe mode though and pretty much only use upswing/downswing until a stagger the monster or topple it over. Upswing/downswing/fadeswing are super strong for just poking endlessly with really low risk as you can quickly hop out of the way afterwords.

Try fighting an Anjanath/Fulgur Anjanath with just axe mode and bonk its head with upswings/downswings and you will be surprised at how often it flinches and falls over just from that alone. Oh, I should mention that you want to power up axe mode (3 wild swings and then the downswing). This makes flinching even easier. I will just swing and hit the air if I have to just so I'm in powered up state.

Just did three Tigrex quests in a row "Absolute Power" helping lowbies. Having trouble being able to dip in and out during the things endless attacks whilst still doing damage. Forget trying to ZSD at all unless its down or you have Rocksteady on.

Also forget trying to power up your axe unless the thing is exhausted or down either.

I hate getting hit, why I like my Lance/GL so much.

Edit:

So I watched this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIwoUPpOY3A&t=156s

I have no doubt I could manage that in solo play, in multiplayer the monsters have higher thresholds to meet before staggering. Guess I'll have to weave in and out better.

Remember, you can detonate ZSD early. It wont do as much damage as a full ZSD, but it still knocks you back a good distance, without putting you back into Axe.

[jrubz]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Orange and Blue Ninja:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JRubz:

No.

Y>Y>Y>B>B>B is a good swordmode combo with the Kulve elemental axes.
With the raw axes, axe mode wild axe combos are also extremely viable.

Even considering rocksteady plus health augment safety while latched?

How long does it take to do that 6 button combo? I feel like I’d cart against a monster that isn’t down doing that.

It's a combo for a downed monster, not one that's up. If you run this combo instead of ZSDing on the monster when it's downed, you'll be able to ramp up your DPS higher as you're not wasting time to clutchclaw and exit the explosion.

You can always take a timed test yourself on the training area cart for what's going to be best for you when the monster is downed.