Jho or Odogaron lance?

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Wondering which one of those works best as a jack of all trades

[Seamus]

Originally posted by kyle1234513:

Originally posted by Seamus:

I meant proof that you've got anything remotely resembling skill.

Which you refuse to prove.

Which is why there's zero reason to listen to you.

now you're just being obtuse, the data is right in front of you, either you can pull from it or you cant. dont put this on me. you're the one rejecting the facts.

the fact is you want a 3* weakness or klaw, right up until luna. then just start blasting all over the place with styx.

Data that other people are good at the game is in front of me.

All you've provided about yourself is that you've got an ego the size of saturn and no talent to back it up.

tl;dr : Put up or shut up.

[Gotsa]

Originally posted by Seamus:

Originally posted by kyle1234513:

now you're just being obtuse, the data is right in front of you, either you can pull from it or you cant. dont put this on me. you're the one rejecting the facts.

the fact is you want a 3* weakness or klaw, right up until luna. then just start blasting all over the place with styx.

Data that other people are good at the game is in front of me.

All you've provided about yourself is that you've got an ego the size of saturn and no talent to back it up.

tl;dr : Put up or shut up.

im sorry you dont want to learn, but please stop trying to drag others down to your level, the deviljho lance is not best in slot and you should stop trying to tell people that it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5_1d7zyRwM
2:20 was the best i could do without sharp and it runs away.

and im not spending 30-50 minutes heading out on expeditions and returning to refresh canteen looking for weakener between every attempt, im not going to do that.

[Seamus]

Originally posted by kyle1234513:

Originally posted by Seamus:

Data that other people are good at the game is in front of me.

All you've provided about yourself is that you've got an ego the size of saturn and no talent to back it up.

tl;dr : Put up or shut up.

im sorry you dont want to learn, but please stop trying to drag others down to your level, the deviljho lance is not best in slot and you should stop trying to tell people that it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5_1d7zyRwM
2:20 was the best i could do without sharp and it runs away.

and im not spending 30-50 minutes heading out on expeditions and returning to refresh canteen looking for weakener between every attempt, im not going to do that.

I'm amused.

Where exactly did I claim the joe lance is the best lance?

C'mon. Pull your head out of your ass for two seconds and show me.

[Nine]

Originally posted by kyle1234513:

Originally posted by Nine:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Garon Dhara II video from before jho came out?

idk, didnt check the dates, either way no1 is contesting these numbers with something faster so go ahead and give it a whirl if you think you can do better with jho. i emplor you to do so.


let me explain why limited tests against dummy/random hunts is wrong, first off, jho with a non perfect crit score will be variable and it needs a large number of hits to get a good average. secondly, monsters have variable health and defense and moves, and there will always be instances where you totaly crit 90% of the time with a deviljho lance despite being an average crit chance of 20 or 70 (you can cap it if you really want to but its still not optimal or reliable as damage +sharpness) netting a cherry picked score of "deviljho is best guys" despite odogarons average being slightly better.

so i guess you can say deviljho is stronger in the sense that it can get a lucky outcome every so many speed runs.

but odogaron/claw has the more consistent output OR WILL outperform it in the long haul runs given a hunt with a certain hp pool.

I literally said that Claw is better than jho in the first reply to this thread and advised the OP to go for Claw. When it comes to garon vs jho for a jack-of-all trades build (which was this thread's original question) I would say jho wins out if only because of elderseal but frankly the effective difference between the weapons is so small that anything short of TA runs will make no tangible difference to the average user. When it comes to TA, garon is not viable at all in the current meta with Claw's release and jho is at best a niche choice for dragon-weak monsters.

I looked it up and the first video is from before jho came out. Whether that means jho was the better lance for TA when it came out, I couldn't say but I'm sure the meta evolved with jho's introduction.

[Thundaga]

We're talking general use, multiplayer. Another thing a lot of players, myself included on PC, don't have are stupid amounts of decos, the best gear. You know what the speed runners have? All of that, I'm not debating which weapon is better at the absolute top tiers of play with full loadouts, augments, decorations ect ect. We're just talking general for fun hunts and at the base or mid level of gear/deco/upgrades; Jho's lance beats out Odo's in sheer damage, which up until the higher tiers of play, most people use Diablos for it's sheer raw, Jho's in this case because it's a po' boys Diablo's weapon for those weapon types that don't have a Diablo's weapon.

If we're talking budget setups then Odo lance has a lot going for it: natural white sharpness means no Handicraft investment, high crit means minimal crit investment, being non-elemental lets you use a very common jewel to fix its raw damage. It is very good for a general purpose build if you don't have the decorations to optimize your armor and don't mind having less damage than the Jho lance.

[L:D]

Originally posted by kyle1234513:

Originally posted by L:D:

He clearly speaking for them, if he had the courage to endure speedruning he would not be here trying desperately trying to prove himself.

Said that, yes Odo lance is better but for a normal player it doesn't matter. Speedrunners use Odo lance because it can save seconds, not because it's can save 10 minutes compared to Jho lance, and we all know seconds matters in speedruning.
People are so deep into speedruns but mostly of the time they can't understand them because it reach a point they can't think by themselves anymore, that's a shame.




Also, using your logic Jho lance is better for speedrun because i found a Teostra video with better time. What a great logic. :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjCwJFhXYVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcg7OF1GVQ

if you read what i just said in my prior post you would throw that out as he crits with deviljho lance far more than he should.

both of them also mess up a little bit so w/e (garon run he gets knocked down)

It's pretty clear why he's criting way more than it indeed does, if you can't tell why you should not be talking about speedrun to begin with. And that's the point, you're backing what you saying with random videos that doesn't prove anything, not mention you trying to compare time with tree different monsters what makes no sense.
Like i said, yes Odo lance is better for gain seconds, but trying to prove that with speedruns that are not under TA rules is ridiculous.

[Gotsa]

Originally posted by L:D:

Originally posted by kyle1234513:

if you read what i just said in my prior post you would throw that out as he crits with deviljho lance far more than he should.

both of them also mess up a little bit so w/e (garon run he gets knocked down)

It's pretty clear why he's criting way more than it indeed does, if you can't tell why you should not be talking about speedrun to begin with. And that's the point, you're backing what you saying with random videos that doesn't prove anything, not mention you trying to compare time with tree different monsters what makes no sense.
Like i said, yes Odo lance is better for gain seconds, but trying to prove that with speedruns that are not under TA rules is ridiculous.

ridiculous is recommending jho lance over odo lance when one is siginficantly easier to farm parts for than the other.

and its literally stated as a "jack of all trades" thats raw, not dragon. raw is literally useable everywhere all the time.

if you want to compare base output, then unequip everything and go hit a dummy and record 500 hits and tell me the result, i already know it, odo wins (doesn't need handicraft)

[Thundaga]

and its literally stated as a "jack of all trades" thats raw, not dragon. raw is literally useable everywhere all the time.

Jho has one of the highest base raws among lances so it will still deal decent damage even to monsters that resist dragons, IIRC.

[Fool]

Originally posted by LoveCanBloomOnaBattlefield:

If we're talking budget setups then Odo lance has a lot going for it: natural white sharpness means no Handicraft investment, high crit means minimal crit investment, being non-elemental lets you use a very common jewel to fix its raw damage. It is very good for a general purpose build if you don't have the decorations to optimize your armor and don't mind having less damage than the Jho lance.

This, is very true. I have to give credit where it's due and that's some solid words there. I'm speaking from experience is all; and I stopped playing a week or so after Jho was released on console, at that point I had most of the decos and charms. No matter what I tried though I couldn't get Odo lance to out do the Jho, and it was a small, small margin but it was a repeatable test. My build was likely off though, needed some work, it was honestly cobbled together while we worked to figure out where the new weapons stand in the discord. At a budget though, I could see Odo's doing better even for the affinity and sharpness out of the box. I didn't think about that.

[Thundaga]

Originally posted by Nonsense:

Originally posted by LoveCanBloomOnaBattlefield:

If we're talking budget setups then Odo lance has a lot going for it: natural white sharpness means no Handicraft investment, high crit means minimal crit investment, being non-elemental lets you use a very common jewel to fix its raw damage. It is very good for a general purpose build if you don't have the decorations to optimize your armor and don't mind having less damage than the Jho lance.

This, is very true. I have to give credit where it's due and that's some solid words there. I'm speaking from experience is all; and I stopped playing a week or so after Jho was released on console, at that point I had most of the decos and charms. No matter what I tried though I couldn't get Odo lance to out do the Jho, and it was a small, small margin but it was a repeatable test. My build was likely off though, needed some work, it was honestly cobbled together while we worked to figure out where the new weapons stand in the discord. At a budget though, I could see Odo's doing better even for the affinity and sharpness out of the box. I didn't think about that.

I haven't found any recent TAs that use it, but I'm pretty sure that after you left the Deviljho Lance fell out of style for the most part after Kulve gave us the Taroth "Claw" which is a straight upgrade to the Odogaron Lance (unless you need the specific properties of the Odogaron Lance to bolster a hard to make set), and the Lunastra Lance which is insane for general purpose due to overall great stats and built-in Razor Sharp.

And then we got not one, but two major high end armor sets with Master's Touch on it that the crit lances can abuse.

[L:D]

Originally posted by kyle1234513:

Originally posted by L:D:

It's pretty clear why he's criting way more than it indeed does, if you can't tell why you should not be talking about speedrun to begin with. And that's the point, you're backing what you saying with random videos that doesn't prove anything, not mention you trying to compare time with tree different monsters what makes no sense.
Like i said, yes Odo lance is better for gain seconds, but trying to prove that with speedruns that are not under TA rules is ridiculous.

ridiculous is recommending jho lance over odo lance when one is siginficantly easier to farm parts for than the other.

and its literally stated as a "jack of all trades" thats raw, not dragon. raw is literally useable everywhere all the time.

if you want to compare base output, then unequip everything and go hit a dummy and record 500 hits and tell me the result, i already know it, odo wins (doesn't need handicraft)

One thing does not nullify the other, if you want to say it ridiculous to people say Jho lance is a good weapon that's ok, but what i said about comparing speedruns the way you doing is also ridiculous.
But i have nothing to say here because i agree with that, Odo is easier to make and it's raw. Whoever if you don't have patience to farm a weapon you'll not have patience for the most of the part of the game wich includes fight against heavy rng, if that's the case you don't really need bis.

And you don't need try so hard try to proof Odo lance is better for me since i'm said it at least two times by now. Unfortunately you seem to be a person that doesn't understand or don't want to acknowledge the real value of Odo lance for speedruns and why it doesn't matter for casual runs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯