Jho or Odogaron lance?

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

Wondering which one of those works best as a jack of all trades

[Gotsa]

Nonsense původně napsal:

❄ původně napsal:

Dude what. Noone here said that Jho is better than Claw. Learn to backread. The OP asked what is the better Lance. Clearly its Claw, but by a small margin, and thats what a lot of us here are trying to say, that the difference is so small that youre not losing much if you use Jho and do not get the Claw.

Also you even extended the thread to pointing out that no Jho weapon is the best in their respective weapon type, only to follow up with your own thoughts on the Jho HBG. Contradicting yourself? Me and another one pointed out that the Jho HH is still the best HH, and thats where your second point goes invalid

We did a lot of theory crafting and testing when Jho invaded the console via the community discord for the game. With almost full decoration, charm and damage build ect ect I found Jho's lance was beating out Odo's by a small margin but a still noticable one for sure and we tried a good number of builds. It's a powerful weapon. On the topic of the HH I'm not sure what some of the new monsters added, but I had easily a couple hundred HH Hunts under my belt was totally stoked to see what they would do for Jho's, and I have to agree it's one of the most solid HH's in the game, so much in fact I'm not even going to build dodogama's, just going to work my way towards Jho's stuff on PC. Might do Teo's too though just because I'm not looking forward to the endless carts at Val once I get there.

ok then you can be the first person to beat all the asian speedrunners and show them how right you are because clearly they are all wrong for using odo/claw or 3* specific weakness to do it.

you know better, you know the jho lance is best in slot, so prove it and speed run faster than what they are already doing.

[Fool]

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

Nonsense původně napsal:

We did a lot of theory crafting and testing when Jho invaded the console via the community discord for the game. With almost full decoration, charm and damage build ect ect I found Jho's lance was beating out Odo's by a small margin but a still noticable one for sure and we tried a good number of builds. It's a powerful weapon. On the topic of the HH I'm not sure what some of the new monsters added, but I had easily a couple hundred HH Hunts under my belt was totally stoked to see what they would do for Jho's, and I have to agree it's one of the most solid HH's in the game, so much in fact I'm not even going to build dodogama's, just going to work my way towards Jho's stuff on PC. Might do Teo's too though just because I'm not looking forward to the endless carts at Val once I get there.

ok then you can be the first person to beat all the asian speedrunners and show them how right you are because clearly they are all wrong for using odo/claw or 3* specific weakness to do it.

you know better, you know the jho lance is best in slot, so prove it and speed run faster than what they are already doing.

Let me stop you right here..

Claw wasn't even out on console when we did this, and Jho was the newset monster, my lance was created on the day he was released, and I said at the HH part I'm not sure what some of the new monsters added; I.E Taroth

Secondly, you're looking at the game differently, I wasn't a speed runner by any means, and those people go through countless takes and shots to get the perfect kill, to get the perfect run. You can't deny this, we both know it's true. Factoring in raw damage values Jho's lance beats Odo's unless something has changed. Speed Runners use a lot of different tactics, strange builds, coming up with fun and unique ways to shave off a few seconds. Maybe it's a speed sharpening build? Maybe polish? 100% Crit? Countless builds they could be using and tweaking. I was talking about raw numbers, and general use without excess of very, very rare decorations.

Third, are you a speed runner yourself speaking from experience or are you speaking for them and what goes into speed running? Do you have any idea what you're on about other than what you heard or saw in a youtube video / stream?

[Seamus]

Nonsense původně napsal:

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

ok then you can be the first person to beat all the asian speedrunners and show them how right you are because clearly they are all wrong for using odo/claw or 3* specific weakness to do it.

you know better, you know the jho lance is best in slot, so prove it and speed run faster than what they are already doing.

Let me stop you right here..

Claw wasn't even out on console when we did this, and Jho was the newset monster, my lance was created on the day he was released, and I said at the HH part I'm not sure what some of the new monsters added; I.E Taroth

Secondly, you're looking at the game differently, I wasn't a speed runner by any means, and those people go through countless takes and shots to get the perfect kill, to get the perfect run. You can't deny this, we both know it's true. Factoring in raw damage values Jho's lance beats Odo's unless something has changed. Speed Runners use a lot of different tactics, strange builds, coming up with fun and unique ways to shave off a few seconds. Maybe it's a speed sharpening build? Maybe polish? 100% Crit? Countless builds they could be using and tweaking. I was talking about raw numbers, and general use without excess of very, very rare decorations.

Third, are you a speed runner yourself speaking from experience or are you speaking for them and what goes into speed running? Do you have any idea what you're on about other than what you heard or saw in a youtube video / stream?

He has yet to back up any of his claims with some form of proof.

[Thundaga]

Nonsense isn't wrong, Jho lance was popular for a little while and I remember it being used for time attacks at the time. Jho weapons gave quite a bit of white sharpness for very high raw weapons and it was easy to control how much Handicraft you might have needed with them and negative affinity is rarely a problem if the weapon is sufficiently strong enough.

Taroth Claw is in a different league than Odo Lance. Taroth Claw needs at least some Handicraft but the base raw increase is enough that it makes up for even ignoring the Attack skill so it makes sense that it became the new best-in-slot when it came out. The problem is that you might not actually get the weapon so it might be worth using Jho (or the upcoming Lunastra) lance, EDIT: or even just use Odo if you like crits or want to use Master's Touch, just out of availability

[Gotsa]

Seamus původně napsal:

Nonsense původně napsal:

Let me stop you right here..

Claw wasn't even out on console when we did this, and Jho was the newset monster, my lance was created on the day he was released, and I said at the HH part I'm not sure what some of the new monsters added; I.E Taroth

Secondly, you're looking at the game differently, I wasn't a speed runner by any means, and those people go through countless takes and shots to get the perfect kill, to get the perfect run. You can't deny this, we both know it's true. Factoring in raw damage values Jho's lance beats Odo's unless something has changed. Speed Runners use a lot of different tactics, strange builds, coming up with fun and unique ways to shave off a few seconds. Maybe it's a speed sharpening build? Maybe polish? 100% Crit? Countless builds they could be using and tweaking. I was talking about raw numbers, and general use without excess of very, very rare decorations.

Third, are you a speed runner yourself speaking from experience or are you speaking for them and what goes into speed running? Do you have any idea what you're on about other than what you heard or saw in a youtube video / stream?

He has yet to back up any of his claims with some form of proof.

let me youtube that for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSVVcBC9b0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzu31nI6WL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcg7OF1GVQ

[Seamus]

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

Seamus původně napsal:

He has yet to back up any of his claims with some form of proof.

let me youtube that for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSVVcBC9b0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzu31nI6WL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcg7OF1GVQ

I meant proof that you've got anything remotely resembling skill.

Which you refuse to prove.

Which is why there's zero reason to listen to you.

[Shiki Yui]

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

Seamus původně napsal:

He has yet to back up any of his claims with some form of proof.

let me youtube that for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSVVcBC9b0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzu31nI6WL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcg7OF1GVQ

Them =/= You
Also those videos don't even show comparison for the same monster.

[Melusca]

big munter původně napsal:

KT Lance Sleep has 550 sleep with sleep attack 3, it's perfect for a sleep bomb build w/ apothecary mantle

Do you have a sample build for that? How many sleep procs on average? I just got the weapon and want to try something different.

[Gotsa]

Seamus původně napsal:

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

let me youtube that for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSVVcBC9b0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzu31nI6WL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcg7OF1GVQ

I meant proof that you've got anything remotely resembling skill.

Which you refuse to prove.

Which is why there's zero reason to listen to you.

now you're just being obtuse, the data is right in front of you, either you can pull from it or you cant. dont put this on me. you're the one rejecting the facts.

the fact is you want a 3* weakness or klaw, right up until luna. then just start blasting all over the place with styx.

[♋Phenex]

Taroth Claw is better than Jho for general purpose and probably easier to build around but it is arguably more annoying to get. Against monsters weak to dragon, Jho is better.

[Nine]

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

Seamus původně napsal:

He has yet to back up any of his claims with some form of proof.

let me youtube that for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSVVcBC9b0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzu31nI6WL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcg7OF1GVQ

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Garon Dhara II video from before jho came out?

[Gotsa]

Nine původně napsal:

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

let me youtube that for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSVVcBC9b0I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzu31nI6WL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcg7OF1GVQ

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Garon Dhara II video from before jho came out?

idk, didnt check the dates, either way no1 is contesting these numbers with something faster so go ahead and give it a whirl if you think you can do better with jho. i emplor you to do so.


let me explain why limited tests against dummy/random hunts is wrong, first off, jho with a non perfect crit score will be variable and it needs a large number of hits to get a good average. secondly, monsters have variable health and defense and moves, and there will always be instances where you totaly crit 90% of the time with a deviljho lance despite being an average crit chance of 20 or 70 (you can cap it if you really want to but its still not optimal or reliable as damage +sharpness) netting a cherry picked score of "deviljho is best guys" despite odogarons average being slightly better.

so i guess you can say deviljho is stronger in the sense that it can get a lucky outcome every so many speed runs.

but odogaron/claw has the more consistent output OR WILL outperform it in the long haul runs given a hunt with a certain hp pool.

[Fool]

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

Seamus původně napsal:

I meant proof that you've got anything remotely resembling skill.

Which you refuse to prove.

Which is why there's zero reason to listen to you.

now you're just being obtuse, the data is right in front of you, either you can pull from it or you cant. dont put this on me. you're the one rejecting the facts.

the fact is you want a 3* weakness or klaw, right up until luna. then just start blasting all over the place with styx.

Dude, you're not on the same page as the rest of us. Speed Running in Monster Hunter, hell any game really; is a totally different game. None of us are talking about speed running, speed runners run the same monster over and over, back to back, tweaking their gear, builds, items. Monster AI and RNG plays a huge factor in a successful run or not or just dumping it and starting over, they're also always solo hunting.

We're talking general use, multiplayer. Another thing a lot of players, myself included on PC, don't have are stupid amounts of decos, the best gear. You know what the speed runners have? All of that, I'm not debating which weapon is better at the absolute top tiers of play with full loadouts, augments, decorations ect ect. We're just talking general for fun hunts and at the base or mid level of gear/deco/upgrades; Jho's lance beats out Odo's in sheer damage, which up until the higher tiers of play, most people use Diablos for it's sheer raw, Jho's in this case because it's a po' boys Diablo's weapon for those weapon types that don't have a Diablo's weapon.

Once again, we're not talking about speed running, are we on the same page now?

[L:D]

Nonsense původně napsal:

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

ok then you can be the first person to beat all the asian speedrunners and show them how right you are because clearly they are all wrong for using odo/claw or 3* specific weakness to do it.

you know better, you know the jho lance is best in slot, so prove it and speed run faster than what they are already doing.

Third, are you a speed runner yourself speaking from experience or are you speaking for them and what goes into speed running? Do you have any idea what you're on about other than what you heard or saw in a youtube video / stream?

He clearly speaking for them, if he had the courage to endure speedruning he would not be here trying desperately trying to prove himself.

Said that, yes Odo lance is better but for a normal player it doesn't matter. Speedrunners use Odo lance because it can save seconds, not because it's can save 10 minutes compared to Jho lance, and we all know seconds matters in speedruning.
People are so deep into speedruns but mostly of the time they can't understand them because it reach a point they can't think by themselves anymore, that's a shame.

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

Seamus původně napsal:

I meant proof that you've got anything remotely resembling skill.

Which you refuse to prove.

Which is why there's zero reason to listen to you.

now you're just being obtuse, the data is right in front of you, either you can pull from it or you cant. dont put this on me. you're the one rejecting the facts.

the fact is you want a 3* weakness or klaw, right up until luna. then just start blasting all over the place with styx.

Also, using your logic Jho lance is better for speedrun because i found a Teostra video with better time. What a great logic. :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjCwJFhXYVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcg7OF1GVQ

[Gotsa]

L:D původně napsal:

Nonsense původně napsal:

Third, are you a speed runner yourself speaking from experience or are you speaking for them and what goes into speed running? Do you have any idea what you're on about other than what you heard or saw in a youtube video / stream?

He clearly speaking for them, if he had the courage to endure speedruning he would not be here trying desperately trying to prove himself.

Said that, yes Odo lance is better but for a normal player it doesn't matter. Speedrunners use Odo lance because it can save seconds, not because it's can save 10 minutes compared to Jho lance, and we all know seconds matters in speedruning.
People are so deep into speedruns but mostly of the time they can't understand them because it reach a point they can't think by themselves anymore, that's a shame.

kyle1234513 původně napsal:

now you're just being obtuse, the data is right in front of you, either you can pull from it or you cant. dont put this on me. you're the one rejecting the facts.

the fact is you want a 3* weakness or klaw, right up until luna. then just start blasting all over the place with styx.

Also, using your logic Jho lance is better for speedrun because i found a Teostra video with better time. What a great logic. :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjCwJFhXYVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcg7OF1GVQ

if you read what i just said in my prior post you would throw that out as he crits with deviljho lance far more than he should.

both of them also mess up a little bit so w/e (garon run he gets knocked down)