Charge Blade users: How much Guard in Iceborne?

[NilValue]

I've noticed that a lot of enemy attacks in iceborne seem to have far more knockback than in vanilla, even with charged shield and guard point. I've always used only 1 level in guard, but I am now considering 5.
How many levels of guard are you guys using?

[Pelikan]

Първоначално публикувано от Poothoottoot:

With guard 1 you miss out on certain AEDs off harder hitting monster attacks but guard on CB has always been a thing of personal preference/per monster basis. Personally I run guard 3 in the rare times I CB.

Thank you for your reply. I am sorry but i did not understand what did you mean exactly by "miss out on certain AEDs off harder missing monster attacks"

Did you mean that when you guard point certain powerful attacks with your shield charged, the follow up discharge will do more damage with a higher guard skill?

I am genuine in my question, i really didnt understand and i am curious about that.

Because in my experience, blocking powerful moves actually charged my shield and not the other way around.

Or did you mean that some powerful attacks will eat up your sharpness quicker with a lower guard skill, which means that the following attack could potentially do less damage if it gets you from white to blue sharpness, or purple to white.

Because if it is the latter, I would rather add more handicraft. Thank you for clarifying, i like to discuss these things and learn new things.

[Poothoottoot]

Първоначално публикувано от Albator:

Първоначално публикувано от Poothoottoot:

With guard 1 you miss out on certain AEDs off harder hitting monster attacks but guard on CB has always been a thing of personal preference/per monster basis. Personally I run guard 3 in the rare times I CB.

Thank you for your reply. I am sorry but i did not understand what did you mean exactly by "miss out on certain AEDs off harder missing monster attacks"

Did you mean that when you guard point certain powerful attacks with your shield charged, the follow up discharge will do more damage with a higher guard skill?

I am genuine in my question, i really didnt understand and i am curious about that.

Because in my experience, blocking powerful moves actually charged my shield and not the other way around.

Or did you mean that some powerful attacks will eat up your sharpness quicker with a lower guard skill, which means that the following attack could potentially do less damage if it gets you from white to blue sharpness, or purple to white.

Because if it is the latter, I would rather add more handicraft. Thank you for clarifying, i like to discuss these things and learn new things.

Sorry I was a bit unclear I suppose, the guard skill influences how far certain attacks push you back when blocked. CB has a threshold where if you're pushed back too far/hard you are unable to do an AED or morph to counter out of the blockstun forcing you to ride out the whole animation, it can make you lose out on windows for big bursts of damage.

It's worth noting that this also applies to lance's counter if you do not Power Guard an attack, Power guarding will always allow you to execute a counter attack.

[Pelikan]

Ahh ok Thank you for your reply Poothoottoot, I got it now :)

Indeed having lower guard can limit your counter attack potential when blocking strong attacks due more knockback ,that is true, but if you guard point it, would it make a difference?

But you're right, that would be the benefit of going guard+3 if you can afford the slots.

[Poothoottoot]

Първоначално публикувано от Albator:

Ahh ok Thank you for your reply Poothoottoot, I got it now :)

Indeed having lower guard can limit your counter attack potential when blocking strong attacks due more knockback ,that is true, but if you guard point it, would it make a difference?

But you're right, that would be the benefit of going guard+3 if you can afford the slots.

I know in prior games landing a successful guard point lowered the knockback but I don't use CB enough in world to notice a difference sorry. The guard point in world triggers a small phial explosion when you block an attack with it (with a charged shield) and I think that's the main benefit.

[stealthdriver]

Първоначално публикувано от Poothoottoot:

Първоначално публикувано от Albator:

Ahh ok Thank you for your reply Poothoottoot, I got it now :)

Indeed having lower guard can limit your counter attack potential when blocking strong attacks due more knockback ,that is true, but if you guard point it, would it make a difference?

But you're right, that would be the benefit of going guard+3 if you can afford the slots.

I know in prior games landing a successful guard point lowered the knockback but I don't use CB enough in world to notice a difference sorry.

Ya some attacks that hit too hard can't be coutered from a guardpoint unless youre running higher lvls of guard skill. Varies from monster to monster and attack to attack.

[Aelin Galathynius]

Charging your shield gives 1 point of guard. Guard pointing gives another point.

Guard 1 was recommended for base game because it means guard pointing gives guard 3 which reduces the knockback enough to counter attack pretty much everything.

For Iceborne monsters generally do more knockback so putting guard 3 in the build helps with blocking and gives charged shield guard points guard 5 for max knockback and stamina reduction and ensures you can counter attack.


Also once you have all of your core skills and you have some slots left guard is a pretty good choice to throw extra levels on and it only needs a level 1 slot.

[Pelikan]

Interesting observations guys, i wasnt' aware of that , i thought it was almost useless to go guard3, thank you.

[Krausser]

A single ironwall/attack or ironwall/expert will give you guard 3 with your shield charged. If you wanna feel extra safe, feel free to add guard up jewel as well, in my experience it's enough to block everything that you would want to block if you can't sheathe quick enough.

[NilValue]

Thanks for all the answers people.
The main reason why I am considering to go all the way to guard 5 is because the ironside charm gives guard 5 anyway. There is no reason to have any skill (besides attack boost 4, maybe) on the charm if I want more than 1 level in guard. If I go for 3 levels in guard, I might just as well go with the ironwall charm for guard 5. However, the consensus seems to be that guard 1 is rarely enough in iceborne for tempered monsters, only for non-tempered. That is very helpful. I think I'll go with guard 5 then XD.

[Master Bates]

Първоначално публикувано от NilValue:

I've noticed that a lot of enemy attacks in iceborne seem to have far more knockback than in vanilla, even with charged shield and guard point. I've always used only 1 level in guard, but I am now considering 5.
How many levels of guard are you guys using?

1.

Shield charge gives you 2 and Guard Point maxes out the rest so you end up with minimal knockback.

3 if you dont feel comfortable with Guard Point but I highly recommend getting used to one of your best tools as a CB user.

[Corrupt-nz]

O

[Rengoku]

Depends on the match up and how you want to approach your play really.

Disclaimer, this is base on my personal experience. For most monsters (including their subs/variants), 1 guard is enough.

That said, you have to pay attention on what moveset the monster is using. E.g. Glavenus massive tailsweep is always unlockable so i framing it is much better.

Another case is brute tigrex roar spam. Most are GP able with 1 guard, but the stomp variations with 2 front leg is only block able with guard 3.

Next is ruiner nergigante. If you want to comfortably face tanking his attacks, you need to have guard 5. Why? Most of his attacks give you massive knock back. Akantorex has a recent run on this one.

If you want a comfortable and flexible setup without sacrificing too much offensive slot, go with guard 3.

[Xilo The Odd]

yeah i've noticed guard pointing with only 1 point of guard isnt cutting it anymore. 3 seems to be the right level.

i just hope they fix our phials going missing and not discharging... if my phials ejected from my weapon, they should explode. end of discussion.

[𝔉𝔯𝔢𝔦𝔩𝔲𝔠]

Based on my experience on cb. (2.4k uses),
On master rank:

Threat lv 2: 1 ironwall (budget) or 3 ironwall

Threat lv 3 (tempered elders, ruiner): 5 ironwall (and 1 shield up)

Why?

While 3 ironwalls may be enough to block the attacks on threat lv 3s, you can't chain SAED cause the knockback is too high. Example: ruiner dive bomb.

MR attacks are DIFFERENT from HR attacks. Knockbacks. And yeah, guard 5+GP stacks.

Shield up is used of duckin velkhana ice vomit and other MR elder shenanigans.

Tl;dr: guard 5. It makes a difference if you want optional damage. If not, 3 is enough.

[NilValue]

Първоначално публикувано от Kintama:

Depends on the match up and how you want to approach your play really.

Disclaimer, this is base on my personal experience. For most monsters (including their subs/variants), 1 guard is enough.

That said, you have to pay attention on what moveset the monster is using. E.g. Glavenus massive tailsweep is always unlockable so i framing it is much better.

Another case is brute tigrex roar spam. Most are GP able with 1 guard, but the stomp variations with 2 front leg is only block able with guard 3.

Next is ruiner nergigante. If you want to comfortably face tanking his attacks, you need to have guard 5. Why? Most of his attacks give you massive knock back. Akantorex has a recent run on this one.

If you want a comfortable and flexible setup without sacrificing too much offensive slot, go with guard 3.

I am guard pointing, but most of the attacks have too much knockback in order to retaliate. That is a damage loss for me :) That was why I am asking. Also, I am considering that the the sharpness loss is far greater when you block and have a heavy knockback (1 sharpness for small, 2 for medium, 10 for large, according to fextralife).

Първоначално публикувано от Fuzen:

Based on my experience on cb. (2.4k uses),
On master rank:

Threat lv 2: 1 ironwall (budget) or 3 ironwall

Threat lv 3 (tempered elders, ruiner): 5 ironwall (and 1 shield up)

Why?

While 3 ironwalls may be enough to block the attacks on threat lv 3s, you can't chain SAED cause the knockback is too high. Example: ruiner dive bomb.

MR attacks are DIFFERENT from HR attacks. Knockbacks. And yeah, guard 5+GP stacks.

Shield up is used of duckin velkhana ice vomit and other MR elder shenanigans.

Tl;dr: guard 5. It makes a difference if you want optional damage. If not, 3 is enough.

Velkhanas ice breath is dodgable with iframes. The only problem is the ice walls that follow after it, still working on that one, but guard up is sth i only consider for fights like behemoth when i actually have to "tank", which I don't think will happen in iceborne. Maybe with rajang?
Also, guard up seems unreliable now, afaik savage jho's grab is not blockable with guard up.

Also I'd like to leave you these sources:

https://mhaule.tumblr.com/post/119293140014/blocking
So guard 5 and charge blade red shield as well as guard point should all stack.

https://monsterhunterworld.wiki.fextralife.com/Sharpness
Sharpness loss far greater on a large knockback