Best Insect Glaive Build

[Symbol]

can someone suggest me the best builds that this weapon has?
people say the catastrophe's light is the best and the pseudocat kinsect
but I don't know what to build

[DeFragged]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Elysiums:

Can you please PM me a good build for IG. My friend is RC 49 and we have no idea what to farm right now to have optimal dps in Tempered monsters.

Let me post my Elemental Crit build again:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1514374207
This build is basically the base for all my Tempered Elder Dragon hunts - the gear is the same, just the mantle, weapon and decorations change.

Here is a very decoration-friendly Raw Damage build:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1514375510
This one doesn't require weapon streamstones to get the most out of, and it deals respectable damage until you can find enough decos/streamstones.

This is a new Raw Damage build I just came up with after finding just enough streamstones for an augment.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1514371859
It's a LOT stronger (+30 crit damage on the heaviest attack) than the original Raw Damage build but requires a fair number of rarer Decorations and you sacrifice a mantle for the affinity booster to get it to 100% crit, and it goes blunt quickly.

[Voodoo]

1)odogaron is horrible ig

160 true raw
charm/talon 15
food atk up l 15
mega demon 7
attack 4 12

160+15+15+7+12=209
209x1.32x1,1=304 effective raw

304 x 1,05=319 with affinity

2)diablos

230 true raw

230+15+15+7+12=279
279x1,2x1,1=368 effective raw
368x0,925=340 with affinity

not only beats odogaron without handicraft but itll also stack better with affinity which is cornerstone of any build.

Now for comparison

3)rathalos

190 true raw
190+15+15+7+12=239
239 x 1,2=287 effective raw
287 x 1,05=301 with affinity

also 18 true fire which ill myself bump to 23 with 2 jewels since i havent used elementless here
23x1,0625=24

now lets do pole

opener double slash 18+24(42) and finisher tornado slash 24+42(66)

1)319x0,8x0,42=107 and 319x0,8x0,66=168
2)340x0,8x0,42=114 and 340x0,8x0,66=180
3)301x0,8x0,42+24x2x0,3=101+14=115 and 301x0,8x0,42+24x2x0,3=159+14=173

at 80 sever diablos wins by 7 damage on strongest attack and loses by 1 damage on weakest attack.
Now how many monsters have 80 damage hitzones...is there even 1?

Now let me throw we3 and critical boost 3 while also adding critical element because im a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ masochist

1)304x1,28=389 affinity raw
2)368x1,08=397 affinity raw
3)287x1,28=367 affinity raw and 24x1,21=29 affinity fire

1)131 and 205
2)133 and 210
3)129+17=146 and 194+17=211

tldr you can get decent numbers with diablos, elemental glaive will pull a little higher and odogaron glaive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sux.

[little Star]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DeFragged:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Linguistically Inept:

i really dont understand why vice is the go to raw damage glaive, its nice in most regards but that raw is pathetic (also i think speed boost is way overrated), diablos glaive is so much higher and health boost means more auto attacking kinsect

1. Inherent Affinity
2. Automatic white sharpness negates the need for Handicraft skill
3. White Sharpness actually BOOSTS your damage output by about 20-30% (there're articles on google) - this means the RAW damage is not the ACTUAL damage you see.

I've tested both weapons across various builds with all sorts of skills (no augments, since Shaft Streamstones REFUSE to drop for me) and while the Diablos Glaive has higher inherent raw with a similar build, its affinity penalty means you're getting crits far less often and wasting more slots to get to a decent Affinity rate. This means a very inconsistent DPS output, and more often than not I find it hits for less damage.

Vice has the advantage of being VERY easy to produce consistent DPS output - even if you're not striking a weakpoint you still have a far higher crit chance than a Blos weapon.

A Vice crit hit with the raw damage build does about 7-9 points more damage per hit vs. a Blos non-crit hit (tested in Training Grounds).

With a Vice I can get 95-100% crit hits on every strike which produces consistent damage output, and have the advantage of high sharpness values cutting through hard points and preventing bouncing for longer, while the Blos is unreliable and mercurial.

Now, if I had Affinity Augments to offset the Blos's -30% affinity, then the Blos WOULD be the clear winner - but that's letting RNJesus take the wheel and actually giving me the streamstones I need (which I literally have NOT gotten a single Warrior's Streamstone: Shaft so far. Ask my 7 hammer, 6 blades/swords, 8 Lance and 6 ranged streamstones!).

With at least one (maybe two) affinity augments, the Blos glaive would outdps the Vice since each crit hit is easily 10-12+ damage more than a Vice's crit hit - easily tested by maxing out affinity on both weapons and recording the results per-hit.

tl;dr -
White Sharpness boosts damage per hit.
Vice crit is +7 vs. blos noncrit hit
Blos crit hit is +10-12 vs. Vice crit hit
Blos cannot crit as often so loses the DPS advantage over time

Note: I don't have my damage per hit notes with me but the numbers should be fairly close to those values.

White Sharpness only boost damage by "20-30%" over Yellow Sharpness.

It's a damage multiplayer.

Red 0.5
Orange 0.75
Yellow 1.0
Green 1.05
Blue 1.20
White 1.32


So it is relatively easy to calculate whether or not a weapon is better by .. mathing it.

Catastrophe's Light for example has 210 base raw damage. Vice has 160 base raw damage.

Now if you take all the buffs to damage you can get .. +15 charms, +15 Food, +42 Buffs, +15 Attack 7 .. you're looking at +87 base attack damage.

Catastrophe's Light has natural blue sharpness, so take that 297 damage and multiply it by 1.2

You're looking at 356.4 effective base damage.


Vice would have 160*1.1 (Elementless Jewel) + 87 = 263 damage. Multiply it by 1.32

You're looking at 347.16 effective base damage.

Vice has natural 20% affinity and crits hit for 1.25 of the original damage.

347.16/5 (to determine 20%) = 69.43

(69.43*4) + (69.43*1.25) = 364.51


With Vice reaching white sharpness, having 20% natural crit and an elementless jewel ontop of all buffs, it has roughly 8.11 more base damage.


If you add 80% crit chance to both weapons (Weakness Exploit 3 + Expert 7) and +15% Crit Damage for 140% total (Crit Boost 3)

(356.4/5) = 71.28

(71.28*1.4*4) + 71.28 = 470.45 effective base damage for the Catastrophe's Light with 80% crit chance and 140% crit damage.


364.51*1.4 = 510.31 effective base damage for the Vice with 100% crit chance and 140% crit damage.


So Vice is generally a better weapon than Catastrophe's Light - If you have an Elementless Decoration and build onto crit damage.



Tyrannis Glaive has 230 raw damage. * 1.1 from Elementless Jewel + 87 from buffs. Natural blue sharpness, can reach white sharpness.

Blue Sharpness = 340 * 1.2 = 408 damage

30% negative affinity means 30% of your hits do 25% less damage. But you also have 1 more augment slot, that means +5 more raw damage or +10% more affinity, so take these numbers with a grain of salt, with full augments they are even higher.

408/10 -> (40.8*3*0.75) + (40.8*7) = 377.4 effective base damage with blue sharpness.

White Sharpness = 340 * 1.32 = 448.8

448.8/10 -> (44.88*3*0.75) + (44.88*7) = 415.14 effective base damage with white sharpness.


So even with 30% negative affinity and no Handicraft, Tyrannis Glaive hits harder than Vice. With White Sharpness, there's no real comparison.

Using the same 'Build' of +80% crit and +15% crit damage, the numbers change to this. Since Tyrannis has -30% Affinity, +80% means 50% crit.

Blue Sharpness =

408/2 = 204. | 204 + (204*1.4) = 489 base damage

White Sharpness =

448.8/2 = 224.4 | 224.4 + (224.4*1.4) = 538.56 base damage




Conclusion:

Catastrophe's Light is a great all around weapon that requires nearly nothing, is great for any 'all around' build especially since it has high Elderseal and some added dragon damage. It's the easiest/starting weapon.

Vice is a strong weapon if you have access to decorations, namely the Elementless Decoration. Without it, it falls short behind Catastrophe's Light. It saves a few points by not needing Handicraft, allowing you to make a tankier all around build.

Diablos Tyrannis is the strongest weapon if you have access to a lot of decorations, gear and augments - the best from a purely DPS perspective.

[Lostac]

Something I use for all around:

Weapon: Vice + Health Regen Augment
2S > Elementless Jewel

Head: Dragonking Eyepatch
3S> Tenderizer Jewel

Chestpiece: Xeno Beta
1S> Vitality Jewel
1S> Vitality Jewel

Arms: Xeno Alpha
1S> Vitality Jewel

Waist: Vaal Hazak Beta (can be anything else with the same slot, I'm just lazy to put in others)
1S> Free
1S> Free

Boots: Xeno Alpha
1S > Free

Skills:
Razor Sharp (very nice with vice, also long white sharpness)
Health Boost Lv3: +50 HP, a total of 200 HP, prevents a lot of 1 hit skills vs tempered
Weakness Exploit Lv3: standard easy 50% affinity on top of vice affinity
Power Prolonger Lv3: +40% Insect buffs duration, very nice extra and more dps returns since you can just focus on attacking after sending insect on auto for blasts
Flinch Free Lv2: Very nice multiplayer skill. Let bow noobs be noobs, go wild competing with LS and DB without tripping.
Critical Boost Lv1: Nice synergy with Weakness Exploit Lv3 + Vice Affinity
Non Elemental Boost: Unawakend Vice boost
Peak Performance Lv1: Not really useful, feel free to change waist, altho a bonus +5 atk from here if full HP.

For the 3 free slots:

you can put 4 attack jewels and remove 1 vit jewel (or use a waist with 3 slots to get 4 extra slots, you get to keep your 200 hp from 3 vit jewels as well as get atk up 4)
or
put 3 miasma jewels
or
3 steadfast for stunproof
or
put 3 fire res jewels for teostra
or
Speed sharpen, speed eating, divine protection

and to add you can use diablos weapon over vice if you want to, I just personally don't like it.

[Stryke(r)]

tbh unless you run 3 crit boost (who runs 100% crit without crit boost????) + 100% crit + white sharpness, forget the vice - it's only strong if you stack as much atk up as possible (dunno about the upcoming dlc ones). catastrophe's light might not reach the vice dps (highly min maxed - which also requires the upcoming behemoth armor), but it's way more verstaile. Basically anything that has more raw than vice, also min 15% affinity and can reach white with 3 or better 2 handicraft will outperform the vice. so technically speaking, vaal hazak IG on a crit build might be the strongest one of them (eventhough no non element boost). however vice would have 3 spare slots on that armor that you can fill with basically anything you want. (crit boost will outperfrom raw with heavy investment and esp. buff stacking; food, pills, seeds, etc. - however on a baseline comparison raw seems way way better and is also way more flexible - it's just that it's scaling falls off in highly minmaxed setups compared to crit builds (for any weapon actually) + you also don't always hit weakspots) - thing with IG in generall tho: it's not as easy to get 100% crit on neg affinity weapons, unless you exclusively stand on the ground (why are you using IG then...), but thats about it. personally i use crit build for non tier 3 investigation, but nergigante glaive for anything more "difficult"

so:

nergigante IG: best allround, very flexible

vice: high raw dps on a crit boosted build (eventhough as i mentioned, every glaive that has more raw, 15% crit and white sharpness with 2 handicraft will ourperform it - however you only have <20 points in white on them compared to 40) - and everything depends on having white sharpness the entire time

diablos: highest raw on non crit boosted build (which is more flexible) - don't qoute me on that
i also didn't run any numbers on the deviljho one, might be good, but idk

as for status glaives... you propably have to wait for the kulve event quest and get lucky there


as for the maths:

(weapon damage* non element (if) + buffs * bloatvalue (= 3.1)) * sharpness * crit modifier
* motion value / monster resistance / difficulty parameters = damage done

second line is the same for every glaive, therefore can be neglected; you can do the same calculation with raw damage if you want, but you gotta remove the bloatvalue from buffs and weapons

crit modifier = 1 + (affinity * (0,25 + crit boost))

[Voodoo]

stryker i given you the math, vice is bad.

[Stryke(r)]

buffs, equal for all: 15 + 15 + 7 + 12 = 49
build has: 7 atk boost, 3 crit boost, 3 exploit weakness, 6 critical eye, protective polish, + 2 lvl 3 (used for vaal hazak) and 3 lvl 1 slots

base+buffs+atk(armor)*sharpness*crit=total
vice:
(160 * 1,1 + 49 + 21) * 1,32 * 1,4 = 455

nerg:
(216 + 49 + 21) *1,2 * (1 + (0,4*0,80)) = 454 (+ dragon element)

tyrannis:
(230 * 1,1 + 49 + 21) * 1,2 * (1 + (0,4*0,50)) = 466
tyr(alt):
(230 * 1,1 + 49 + 0) * 1,32 * (1 + (0,4*0,50)) = 479 (not accurate, just a reflection of what white does on this weapon)

vaal hazak:
(200+49+21) * 1,32 * (1 + (0,4*0,8) = 471 (+ dragon element)

this is neglecting the special of the behemoth armor and weapon augments and stuff like peak performance - usually you don't run that type of build on nerg and tyrannis anyway so... (most of the time those are agitator ones). Ofc behemoth armor isn't out on pc yet but for some reason favors - affinity weapons

just to boil it down to the core: atk + crit builds will outperfrom pure raw builds at a certain lvl - for insect glaive, vice is just the fastest way to get there (and yes if you stack enough buffs it'll get up

Początkowo opublikowane przez Voodoo:

stryker i given you the math, vice is bad.

it definatly ****ing sux... just the only glaive that naturally comes with 20% affinity and 40 points of white (so it comes with naturally good scaling - and since we don't have access to the OP gear yet it definatly has it's niche)

[Hare+Guu!]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Linguistically Inept:

health boost means more auto attacking kinsect

Health boost only affects how much health your kinsect powder heals for.

Speed increase it move and attack speed. Stamina is the one that makes it stay out for longer.

[😎Astran😾]

Behemoth set, glaive, kinsect are the best.

[Voodoo]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Stryke(r):

Początkowo opublikowane przez Voodoo:

stryker i given you the math, vice is bad.

it definatly ****ing sux... just the only glaive that naturally comes with 20% affinity and 40 points of white (so it comes with naturally good scaling - and since we don't have access to the OP gear yet it definatly has it's niche)

Despite lack of white and -30% affinity tyrannis is still better.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Voodoo:

1)odogaron is horrible ig

160 true raw
charm/talon 15
food atk up l 15
mega demon 7
attack 4 12

160+15+15+7+12=209
209x1.32x1,1=304 effective raw

304 x 1,05=319 with affinity

2)diablos

230 true raw

230+15+15+7+12=279
279x1,2x1,1=368 effective raw
368x0,925=340 with affinity

not only beats odogaron without handicraft but itll also stack better with affinity which is cornerstone of any build.

Now for comparison

3)rathalos

190 true raw
190+15+15+7+12=239
239 x 1,2=287 effective raw
287 x 1,05=301 with affinity

also 18 true fire which ill myself bump to 23 with 2 jewels since i havent used elementless here
23x1,0625=24

now lets do pole

opener double slash 18+24(42) and finisher tornado slash 24+42(66)

1)319x0,8x0,42=107 and 319x0,8x0,66=168
2)340x0,8x0,42=114 and 340x0,8x0,66=180
3)301x0,8x0,42+24x2x0,3=101+14=115 and 301x0,8x0,42+24x2x0,3=159+14=173

at 80 sever diablos wins by 7 damage on strongest attack and loses by 1 damage on weakest attack.
Now how many monsters have 80 damage hitzones...is there even 1?

Now let me throw we3 and critical boost 3 while also adding critical element because im a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ masochist

1)304x1,28=389 affinity raw
2)368x1,08=397 affinity raw
3)287x1,28=367 affinity raw and 24x1,21=29 affinity fire

1)131 and 205
2)133 and 210
3)129+17=146 and 194+17=211

tldr you can get decent numbers with diablos, elemental glaive will pull a little higher and odogaron glaive ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sux.

[Smug Kot]

Elemental > Raw

We should put in it the White sharpness since diablos has just a sliver in comparation to others elementals IG.

obviously it can be fixed if you are running with a Sharp Jewel.