Whats so bad about the hook claw?

[Reac]

I've seen a lot of complaints about the hook claw before Iceborne released and really ,what is so bad about it? Maybe it's because I'm a hammer main and the issues dont show? I love the mobility and utility of the thing and the fact that you can use it to dodge some attacks (specifically the Glavenus, if you stick quickly to their sides or face ,none of their tail attacks every hit you) and I love the fact that some weapon combos lead into a hook claw combo (for hammer that is the aerials and double charge uppercut). Most of the complaints ive seen back then were also diffused by saying that "Its optional" which I 100% agree with (though it sure helps a lot for me to be able to hit some resistant faces well with my hammer).
So ,are there actually rational reasons to hate the thing?
Edit: I forgot to mention that its a blessing that with the hook claw you can actually reach flying monsters, flash pods always felt cheap ,Im glad they nerfed them (though that opinion might be controversial)

[xXSetsu]

Originally posted by BOWSER:

The only problem with clutch claw to me is the fact light weapons take 2 hits to tenderize. That puts those players in a vulnerable position more often. When I play a light weapon with a squishy build like the Bow, I do not want to be near the enemy.

Don't forget you also drop 2/3 slinger ammo doin this.

They just haven't put much thought into this system. Unfortunately it doesn't look like they want to improve it at all

[Catpuppy]

I think a good change would be to make the duration scale depending on number of players. 90 sec for 4 players, 120 sec for 3, 150 for 2 and anywhere between 180-300 for single player. That way it wouldn't feel so tedious to feel like you're constantly focusing on reapplying tenderize over and over again.

Light weapon tenderize is inherently flawed, because the supply of slinger ammo will dry up super quick without you being able to take advantage of it except for at the start of the fight.

[VibeCheck]

Originally posted by DaBa:

TL/DR: People don't like change. They judge a mechanic based on it's surface appearance, and without fully undersatanding it. Also, some people feel like they're being forced to use it in order to achieve MAX DEEEPS, but that's that's their personal problem, not an issue with the game.

They did the same thing when mounting and other mechanics were introduced, they were wrong every time.

This comment triggered me.

Please elaborate how wallbanging monsters for hilarious chunks of damage with zero risk (if so desired) is not an issue with game design.
Or how "Je suis monte" isn't cheap and even less skillfull to execute than in prior titles.
Or how mantles aren't essentially cheats on a cooldown.

I mean, look...idgaf if you enjoy using those tools but pretending like they are fine from a game design, much less a balance standpoint is just delusional.

Edit:

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush90:

The people who complain about it nonstop are the ones who don't know how to use it properly.

I don't use it at all and I still b1tch about it constantly. Checkmate ;-)

[Valentine (Lunaticus)]

Yeah the wounding mechanic is pretty annoying and I really hope they vastly improve it (some nice suggestions here) for the next game or just outright scrap it.

Like it's pretty nice to be able to wound parts with bad hit zones especially if you want to break them but I don't really see why we also need to be able to wound the weak points of the monsters into super weak points.

[Macho Chunko]

Originally posted by Haloist:

Originally posted by Macho Chunko:

You have to do it twice since you are using a light weapon. If you do it twice the tenderize will stay on.

Glad I learned something from the forums, but then again if I have to do it twice AGAIN, that just defeats the whole purpose of a light weapon refresh. My logic for the refresh is that if it's already tenderised and I do 1 more clutch claw attack before it runs out, it should add another 90s. Having to always do 2 clutch claw attacks to maintain a tenderise makes it extremely annoying and risky, especially on fast monsters.

Atlest with the next patch SnS and DB can do it in one go provided you use their special clutch move so that's somehting, but yeah it's annoying how light weapons need to do it twice although they make up for it by dropping slinger ammo which is a waste doing twice as you will only use one drop instantly.

[xXSetsu]

I wonder why they didn't make any adjustments so far O.o

Usually when you implement a brand new gameplay mechanic/feature you want to balance it and make some changes to it.

[Tresh]

Originally posted by xXSetsu:

I wonder why they didn't make any adjustments so far O.o

Usually when you implement a brand new gameplay mechanic/feature you want to balance it and make some changes to it.

Not sure how much they adjusted when it first came out on console. I've only gotten the expansion around christmas, shortly before it came out for PC, so there might've been a ton of kinks in the beginning.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Gin-chan:

not really its all the 'but muh dps' group complaining they no longer do enough damage if they dont use it.

*laughs in Gunlance*

Anyway, even with non-Gunlance weapons you can still reach cleartimes that are similar to base World (i.e. faster than average hunt times in older games at equivalent rank and equivalent tier of gear). People just want to spend as little time hunting the monster, so they use every trick in the book to make sure the monster can fight back as little as possible, even if they dislike using those tricks.

[Raven]

Originally posted by Dunathon:

Originally posted by xXSetsu:

I wonder why they didn't make any adjustments so far O.o

Usually when you implement a brand new gameplay mechanic/feature you want to balance it and make some changes to it.

Not sure how much they adjusted when it first came out on console. I've only gotten the expansion around christmas, shortly before it came out for PC, so there might've been a ton of kinks in the beginning.

The build we got when IB was released was based on the original IB release build for consoles. We did get some small QoL changes earlier than they did, but we still haven't gotten the buffs for SnS and DB or the automatic full reload for bowguns when visiting tent (have to manually change weapon to another and then back instead). We will catch up to the consoles next month.

[xXSetsu]

Those are QoL adjustments to moves/weapons.

There has not been a single change to tenderize/clutchclaw mechanics.

[Sernior]

Originally posted by Reac:

So ,are there actually rational reasons to hate the thing?

Once you complete the game and you get to end game farming for Decos the tenderizing mechanic becomes stale. Once you just get to that point where you just want to get in bang bang complete your temp t3 hunt in 5 mins or less without losing time, you will understand why people are complaining or playing explosive damage weapons a lot in end game.

But ye if you just recently started then for you is a fun new trick to learn. Bless you and have fun.

[Flip_Light]

Originally posted by Delerium:

Originally posted by DaBa:

TL/DR: People don't like change. They judge a mechanic based on it's surface appearance, and without fully undersatanding it. Also, some people feel like they're being forced to use it in order to achieve MAX DEEEPS, but that's that's their personal problem, not an issue with the game.

They did the same thing when mounting and other mechanics were introduced, they were wrong every time.

This comment triggered me.

Please elaborate how wallbanging monsters for hilarious chunks of damage with zero risk (if so desired) is not an issue with game design.
Or how "Je suis monte" isn't cheap and even less skillfull to execute than in prior titles.
Or how mantles aren't essentially cheats on a cooldown.

I mean, look...idgaf if you enjoy using those tools but pretending like they are fine from a game design, much less a balance standpoint is just delusional.

Edit:

Originally posted by CourtesyFlush90:

The people who complain about it nonstop are the ones who don't know how to use it properly.

I don't use it at all and I still b1tch about it constantly. Checkmate ;-)

Lmao if you think mounting is bad rn you didn't play 4u. You could literally cheese every fight in 4u with 4 people constantly doing mount attacks - very few complained about it back then. You have no ground to stand on because essentially the first reply is right - it really only effects people who want to minmax.

Using the clutch claw wrong can lead to you taking huge swaths of damage. There isn't exactly no risk, especially if you're trying to get wallbangs as fast as possible and are using it outside of the drooling flinch animation.

[TOTALLY NOT A SKELETON]

The issue isn't the clutch claw but rather tenderizing. It's a constant upkeep that makes such an improvement to hunt times (even more so with weakness exploit) that it almost feels like it's necessary. This would be fine, however the act of tenderizing breaks the flow of the hunt (even more so if you're using a light weapon). If tenderizing was reworked to flow better then I (and many others, I would assume) wouldn't have an issue with it. Take the lance for example: the counter clutch is the perfect implementation of it and since the lance is classified as a heavy weapon, you only need to do it once to wound the part.

Another issue is that the tenderizing animations vary between weapons. So if you're using a light weapon with a long tenderizing animation, it's a slog to keep parts wounded and feels like an unnecessary, overly-convoluted mechanic. On the flip-side, if you use a heavy weapon with a short tenderizing animation, it's not nearly as annoying to upkeep.

[Macho Chunko]

Originally posted by Totally Not a Skeleton:

The issue isn't the clutch claw but rather tenderizing. It's a constant upkeep that makes such an improvement to hunt times (even more so with weakness exploit) that it almost feels like it's necessary. This would be fine, however the act of tenderizing breaks the flow of the hunt (even more so if you're using a light weapon). If tenderizing was reworked to flow better then I wouldn't have an issue with it. Take the lance for example: the counter clutch is the perfect implementation of it and since the lance is classified as a heavy weapon, you only need to do it once to wound the part.

Another issue is that the tenderizing animations vary between weapons. So if you're using a light weapon with a long tenderizing animation, it's a slog to keep parts wounded and feels like an unnecessary, overly-convoluted mechanic. On the flip-side, if you use a heavy weapon with a short tenderizing animation, it's not nearly as annoying to upkeep.

True half of the issues people have with the claw wouldn't be there if tenderizer for 25% more damage wouldn't be locked behind it's proper usage.

[CourtesyFlush09]

Clutch Claw's got me HOOKED.


Get it? Because...it hooks. The claw.....


*cricket chirping*