Skill Level in Monster Hunter

[Flori281]

Just wanted to talk about this in a non-toxic way, as a hunter who doesn't think they're at a high skill-level. What do you think makes a "good" or "bad" hunter? What monsters do you think serve as benchmarks for a player's skill? How is MHW's skill/knowledge requirements compared to past entries?

Excuse the wall of text:

Personally, I just think the basis for a good hunter is one who is trying to learn and experiments to find a method or playstyle that suits them. I do not think myself a high-skill player but I always am trying to find a way I can take to victory, and I think this applies to most hunters anyways. But I can say I've had some experiences with players who aren't willing to learn, which is really the first requirement for success in just about everything. A hunter that immediately tries to find blame instead of trying to find out what went wrong will have a hard time improving, and I can say that from personal experience. A hunter has to be willing to try new things even if it's scary or they don't like it. There's a difference between being stubborn and being persistent. I was so attached to my attacking skills and sets that I always struggled and avoided Lunastra at all costs, and whenever I fought her I used a HH with wind negation...but I was trash at hunting horn to begin with, despite my high amount of uses. It really wasn't until a friend of mine started to get into the game that I changed. I hated losing a large portion of my damage and lack of sharpness loss to run a max wind resist setup, but since I never tried another method before then I didn't know how much of a livesaver it would be. Sticking to my le epic drachen despite hitting the carts like my life depended on it was being stubborn. Switching things up and carting is persistence, since I was actually able to learn the fight without all the wind in the way.

In terms of hunter etiquette, I think kinder, sillier, and informative messages help and are the mark of a hunter that is aware of others. I think the chat system in World being...limited.. makes people less likely to ask for assistance or ask questions. Getting told I stink after carting to a monster someone thinks is easy makes me not only less likely to ask for assistance, but also more likely to just close the game. But for the most part, the MH community is an amazing one I'm glad I became a part of.


MHW's low-rank benchmark monsters I think were done pretty well, as they play entirely different from each other and the player's previous encounters. Diablos and Rathalos both teach the player immense amounts of patience and awareness. Instead of the player having ways to abuse the monster, these monsters have ways to abuse the player. Rathalos's constant use of flight allows him to avoid traps and most of the player's attacks while at the same time having its most dangerous attacks available. Diablos can outright smash traps while going underground and can also avoid attacks with it. Its charges do massive damage and force the player to learn patience and act later rather than earlier. Also, its head isn't an immediate weak spot, similar to Barroth. Diablos and Rathalos also show the player the importance of items and how they work differently depending on the monster, which is something the player will only discover through experimenting. Flash pods can make Rathalos fall to the earth, but Diablos relies on sound and the flashbugs in his area do nothing to prevent an assault from under the earth. Sonic pods are the opposite.

This is from a small amount of experience, but I do think World is easier than past entries because there is more for the player to make use of, though this might also be due to hardware restrictions and other factors that prevented past entries from being more like MHW. The older games feel a bit clunky when compared to World, the player AND the monsters.The Slower, less forgiving gameplay definitely hardened some of the hunters I see abusing monsters in this game. (Also, this is a bit off-topic but as a Souls series fanatic I think the MH series is way harder simply because you need to invest to get those juicy i-frames. And you can't parry monsters.)

[mewlynx]

Originalmente postado por Floridian281:

I think the MH series is way harder simply because you need to invest to get those juicy i-frames. And you can't parry monsters.)

You have i-frames on rolls without evade up. The window is tighter, but you can i-frame a decent number of attacks with zero investment.

[JPM岩]

To me, a good hunter is one that learns to play well and understand what that means. You dodge attacks to the best of your ability, you learn how your weapon works, and you do what you can to make your weapon stronger.
I use soloing AT Nerg as a good reference for "gotten gud". I main SA, and I was able to solo AT Nerg multiple times. I could dodge his massive AoE attacks. The ones that are apparently impossible to dodge and the fight that apparently has to be cheesed. Using a weapon that sits at "Middle Place" in terms of both popularity and Speed Run Times/skill. Yet people say the fight is impossible, it's attacks undodgeable.
To me, being able to do that means I've "gotten good" at least at World. I can do what a majority of folks say is impossible, or do at least what the majority claims is too hard.

[mewlynx]

Originalmente postado por JPM岩:

To me, a good hunter is one that learns to play well and understand what that means. You dodge attacks to the best of your ability, you learn how your weapon works, and you do what you can to make your weapon stronger.
I use soloing AT Nerg as a good reference for "gotten gud". I main SA, and I was able to solo AT Nerg multiple times. I could dodge his massive AoE attacks. The ones that are apparently impossible to dodge and the fight that apparently has to be cheesed. Using a weapon that sits at "Middle Place" in terms of both popularity and Speed Run Times/skill. Yet people say the fight is impossible, it's attacks undodgeable.
To me, being able to do that means I've "gotten good" at least at World. I can do what a majority of folks say is impossible, or do at least what the majority claims is too hard.

Speaking of AT Nerg, does MR Nerg have the shoulder slam, or the Nerg variant introduced?

[♋Phenex]

Good = beating monsters and not dying
Bad = carting and failing a lot
Generally speaking of course. Then there are speedrunners who are generally the best cause of their monster knowledge and super fast clear times.

[Tregrenos]

A "good hunter" is someone who just enjoys the game.

A "great hunter" is someone who's overall attitude lends toward others enjoying the game.

A "bad hunter" is a person with a toxic attitude, goes out of their way to point out flaws in others in a non-constructive manner, cheats the system by rigging their stats/items and generally anybody who's ever posted DPS in chat.

[myhr2]

For me, a good hunter is one that helps getting the quest cleared, and that implies :

- strategy : bringing the good tools for the fight, be well-prepared. Bring the correct element/ailment, raw, dragonseal, the correct items, use an armor set that fits your skill level(so many players bringing Drachen and carting left and right, not bringing fire resist to Teostra or Lunastra,...try using Vaal or Nergigante for a change, and please bring Health Booster 3 and crack a Max Potion, it's not a race, it's a hunt, even 15 minutes is plenty if you know what you're doing)

- tactics : once in the quest, knowing what to do. What are your weapon pros and cons, what are you expected to bring in a Hunt. Even if it's mainly dps, go for flinches, and don't forget about other possible utilities, like flashpods, or traps...Also be aware of the expected general flow of the fight : in which area it'll start, what's the monster expected behavior, how many "phases" for the fight, environmental traps, etc, etc. Often, people are stuck on the monster like glue, and it's kinda a shame they don't take a breather more often, to lead the monster under rocks, or toward a trap that was set, it's often "damage, damage, damage..."

- self-awareness : possibly the hardest trait, since it can vary a lot during a hunt. Everyone is susceptible to loosing a bit of poise here and there, over-commit, make mistakes they don't usually do. Also, in multiplayer, realize how are the other players handling and adjust your play style correspondingly, and give useful advices and remarks, in a non-arrogant way (for example, if someone is spamming flashpods during a Tempered Hunt, explain about flash immunity)

AT fights in non-organized multi are a nightmare because a lot of players don't build and/or play defensively when they should. Yes, I know the theory that it's more optimal to have a success rate of 50% with 5 minutes tries than 100% success for 15 minutes hunts, BUT it's mainly valid in solo hunts. In multi, the primary goal should be to not cart, as it is the main reason quests fail. Aside from AT Zorah Magdaros, I've never ever seen a time up in multi, never.

[IrisMachina]

good players = will eventually beat whatever wall they encounter thought several attempts. open to suggestions like a change in tactics etc. mindful of their teammates. will look up guides or info on stuff they wanted to know. self sufficient on solo hunts.

bad players = will give up on a challenge and complain about this so called "unfairness". bad sportsmanship such as DB & LS tripping others, knock away teammates with cluster bombs, toxic behavior, lances & GL holding monster in tight corners making it a bad spot for certain weapon types, etc... being unprepared to a hunt. expect others to carry them then complains about teammates when the hunt fails.

elite players = players who took a lot of time and effort to do things the average player won't attempt due to how much they love the game, speed runners, extremoth solos, etc...

[JPM岩]

Originalmente postado por maelynx:

Originalmente postado por JPM岩:

To me, a good hunter is one that learns to play well and understand what that means. You dodge attacks to the best of your ability, you learn how your weapon works, and you do what you can to make your weapon stronger.
I use soloing AT Nerg as a good reference for "gotten gud". I main SA, and I was able to solo AT Nerg multiple times. I could dodge his massive AoE attacks. The ones that are apparently impossible to dodge and the fight that apparently has to be cheesed. Using a weapon that sits at "Middle Place" in terms of both popularity and Speed Run Times/skill. Yet people say the fight is impossible, it's attacks undodgeable.
To me, being able to do that means I've "gotten good" at least at World. I can do what a majority of folks say is impossible, or do at least what the majority claims is too hard.

Speaking of AT Nerg, does MR Nerg have the shoulder slam, or the Nerg variant introduced?

There is no MR Nerg, the Nerg Variant rn seems to be the MR Nerg; it does get the spammy slammy, and double dive bombs, as well as other attacks

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Originalmente postado por maelynx:

Originalmente postado por Floridian281:

I think the MH series is way harder simply because you need to invest to get those juicy i-frames. And you can't parry monsters.)

You have i-frames on rolls without evade up. The window is tighter, but you can i-frame a decent number of attacks with zero investment.

You litterally dont have i frames unless y ou panic dive sorry.... -.- and panic dives takes time. All evade extender does is make your roll go further... lol

[IrisMachina]

Originalmente postado por NaliWarcow:

Originalmente postado por maelynx:

You have i-frames on rolls without evade up. The window is tighter, but you can i-frame a decent number of attacks with zero investment.

You litterally dont have i frames unless y ou panic dive sorry.... -.- and panic dives takes time. All evade extender does is make your roll go further... lol

you do. its a very small amount but it is at the start of your roll. heres a video that shows you how to iframe roars. it can be done to attakcs that do not have a lingering hitbox as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z9f1YzRjCs

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Originalmente postado por OVERDRIVE!:

Originalmente postado por NaliWarcow:

You litterally dont have i frames unless y ou panic dive sorry.... -.- and panic dives takes time. All evade extender does is make your roll go further... lol

you do. its a very small amount but it is at the start of your roll. heres a video that shows you how to iframe roars. it can be done to attakcs that do not have a lingering hitbox as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z9f1YzRjCs

And on what platform is he playing? :/ Just because he records footage in 60 fps does not mean hjis game 'runs' in 60 fps.

[IrisMachina]

Originalmente postado por NaliWarcow:

Originalmente postado por OVERDRIVE!:

you do. its a very small amount but it is at the start of your roll. heres a video that shows you how to iframe roars. it can be done to attakcs that do not have a lingering hitbox as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z9f1YzRjCs

And on what platform is he playing? :/ Just because he records footage in 60 fps does not mean hjis game 'runs' in 60 fps.

why would his fps matter. its a video that teaches you how to roll roars with certain animation cues. plenty of console players on 30fps can do this.

[Malfeasance]

Originalmente postado por NaliWarcow:

You litterally dont have i frames unless y ou panic dive sorry.... -.- and panic dives takes time. All evade extender does is make your roll go further... lol

Incorrect. Default roll has enough iframes to roll roars and certain fast animation attacks like tail swipes. You can even roll Teo's nova.

That's why evade window says "increases invulnerability" not "adds."

[GamingWithSilvertail]

Originalmente postado por OVERDRIVE!:

Originalmente postado por NaliWarcow:

And on what platform is he playing? :/ Just because he records footage in 60 fps does not mean hjis game 'runs' in 60 fps.

why would his fps matter. its a video that teaches you how to roll roars with certain animation cues. plenty of console players on 30fps can do this.

Yeah just for roars....

>.> Where do iframes matter thou? Attacks or roars?

Did you think of that? There's a reaso nwhy people cant roll through many attacks, and rather have to roll away from that.

[IrisMachina]

Originalmente postado por NaliWarcow:

Originalmente postado por OVERDRIVE!:

why would his fps matter. its a video that teaches you how to roll roars with certain animation cues. plenty of console players on 30fps can do this.

Yeah just for roars....

>.> Where do iframes matter thou? Attacks or roars?

Did you think of that? There's a reaso nwhy people cant roll through many attacks, and rather have to roll away from that.

attacks that dont have a lingering hitbox can be rolled through. many of those fast attacks from monsters such as AT nerg can be iframed. thought i only have done it by accident or by panic a few times. you see speed runners do it all the time in TA speed runs. even so it is not a must learn skill if you do not wish to take the time and effort to learn it. i couldn't even roll roars properly until like HR 300ish and i got through that far just fine and im currently HR750+. if you are not confident in attempting such a stunt it is better to just roll or move out of the way if you see the attack coming, or block if your weapon has that function. if you do not have the skills to iframe attacks, that is perfectly fine. not many people took the effort to learn to do it consistently. but learning it does give you more advantages in finding openings and gives you more leeway to be greedy. but roars? plenty of people can do it and those are worth learning. since dodging it gives you quite alot of free hits on the monster, and its only one or 2 animation to concentrate on per skeleton type. you can increase your i frame with evasion mantle or with the skill evade extender.

theres more info here if you want to check. it is true that its not always practical to do. just showing you that it does exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmhPbtpH6Ts