Spoilers about the Leaning Tower and Eternians origins.

[Daelight]

What the actual heck? They coming from Saurians?? It doesn't make sense at all. Saurians and Primordials are like of Dinosaur/Dragon kin from what I can briefly understand.

Yet, they look EXACTLY like humans with the only difference that they are a tiny bit taller than the average Joe.

I know it's a game and shouldn't be reading too much in to this.
I know evolution plays part in a species but that's a totally different kind of species ending up being a completely different species, that's not how evolution works.
I know with the power of essence maybe they got the form of a human but different/better/whatever, still though, it's confusing to me and it doesn't sit right.

What are your thoughts about them being Saurians? Or at least descendants of them.

[essen]

It's not the same evolution mechanism. But spoilers.

Also they're not a tiny bit taller, they're really tall. Dana is tiny for them and she's Adol's size.

[Tanya]

No idea if you reached that part but (this might be spoiler, you are warned) but the Goddes has somethin to do with the Lacrimosa and the evolution of the species, one of the Wardens said was the Goddes the one who teached him the secret of evolution. At the end every warden has a similar appearance to a human even when their origins are not human alike. Also this is a fantasy game lol, dont expect to be the same evolution we know.

[Daelight]

Originally posted by essen:

It's not the same evolution mechanism. But spoilers.

Also they're not a tiny bit taller, they're really tall. Dana is tiny for them and she's Adol's size.

Adol is a bit taller than Dana.
I know they are taller but there are people like that in real life, too. At least model wise they look a bit taller than Dana, while Dana is taller than Laxia by a small margin, Adol is still a bit taller than Dana.

In real life people can reach up to 2 meters, I know the windows in the game are placed a bit higher than that, but given the structure of the game and how the models are presented it's still confusing, and they still look like humans to me. How much we cut it here and there, they look NOTHING, not even one slight spot of Saurian/Primordial kin. They look more human than a human at this point. lol

[Daelight]

Originally posted by Tanya:

No idea if you reached that part but (this might be spoiler, you are warned) but the Goddes has somethin to do with the Lacrimosa and the evolution of the species, one of the Wardens said was the Goddes the one who teached him the secret of evolution. At the end every warden has a similar appearance to a human even when their origins are not human alike. Also this is a fantasy game lol, dont expect to be the same evolution we know.

I could mildly accept that as an answer, yeah, it does makes sense, and like I said, I know it's a game, based on fantasy and I see Falcom took a lot of liberty on some stuff, but it still felt weird here. lmao I was rubbing my eyes like Mickey Mouse in the 60s when I saw what Dana said.

[Tanya]

Originally posted by Noel Auditore:

Originally posted by Tanya:

No idea if you reached that part but (this might be spoiler, you are warned) but the Goddes has somethin to do with the Lacrimosa and the evolution of the species, one of the Wardens said was the Goddes the one who teached him the secret of evolution. At the end every warden has a similar appearance to a human even when their origins are not human alike. Also this is a fantasy game lol, dont expect to be the same evolution we know.

I could mildly accept that as an answer, yeah, it does makes sense, and like I said, I know it's a game, based on fantasy and I see Falcom took a lot of liberty on some stuff, but it still felt weird here. lmao I was rubbing my eyes like Mickey Mouse in the 60s when I saw what Dana said.

Lol yeah, when Sahad said he had no idea what evolution means i started thinkin maybe on the Ys universe barely anyone knows the concept of evolution, so i guess is on purpose.

[Daelight]

Originally posted by Tanya:

Originally posted by Noel Auditore:

I could mildly accept that as an answer, yeah, it does makes sense, and like I said, I know it's a game, based on fantasy and I see Falcom took a lot of liberty on some stuff, but it still felt weird here. lmao I was rubbing my eyes like Mickey Mouse in the 60s when I saw what Dana said.

Lol yeah, when Sahad said he had no idea what evolution means i started thinkin maybe on the Ys universe barely anyone knows the concept of evolution, so i guess is on purpose.

That could make sense, too. From what I've noticed, the Ys universe seems to be very close to our age but not at our age. Meaning, they do not have internet and access to advanced knowledge like we do have in our real life - yeah, I know, you gonna say "advanced knowledge my ass" lol but you know what I mean here, compared to Ys' fictional universe - I think they might be around 1,700-1,900 if we HAD to put a year, but again, this is my first actual Ys game, I may seem very biased and not based on my assumption.

Thank you, for telling me this, it makes sense.

[Ikagura]

It's just anime logic. At least be glad it's not like the Super Mario Bros movie.

[essen]

You can't compare Ys to our years at all. The timeline is just different. If you did it'd be more like 1300 or 1400 Europe, based on the available technology. But you can't do this comparison because lots of old things in the Ys universe are far more advanced technologically, they were just lost hundreds of years ago.

Evolution in the way we understand it today is a very new concept, it's barely 100 years old, and its mechanisms such as DNA are even more recent discoveries. It's also a very general theory, we don't actually understand it all that well (it's not always survival of the fittest; sometimes traits survive that seem to have no benefit; and our understanding of how current species came to be has a lot of missing links to name a few). It took hundreds of years to get there and it's going to take longer than that to get to the bottom of it.

Evolution in Ys is much simpler in comparison, and is something that probably can't be understood unless you're Adol and you run into the core of the issue with your sword. Somehow.

[Daelight]

Originally posted by essen:

You can't compare Ys to our years at all. The timeline is just different. If you did it'd be more like 1300 or 1400 Europe, based on the available technology. But you can't do this comparison because lots of old things in the Ys universe are far more advanced technologically, they were just lost hundreds of years ago.

Evolution in the way we understand it today is a very new concept, it's barely 100 years old, and its mechanisms such as DNA are even more recent discoveries. It's also a very general theory, we don't actually understand it all that well (it's not always survival of the fittest; sometimes traits survive that seem to have no benefit; and our understanding of how current species came to be has a lot of missing links to name a few). It took hundreds of years to get there and it's going to take longer than that to get to the bottom of it.

Evolution in Ys is much simpler in comparison, and is something that probably can't be understood unless you're Adol and you run into the core of the issue with your sword. Somehow.

Oh, boy, I wish I was Adol, then.

*readies his sword for the next adventure*

[essen]

You'll understand what I mean better after you've finished the game. :-)

[Xengre]

It seems that the Tree of Origin, as far as I can tell so far, likely results in extreme mutations to evolve in beneficial ways to the race over a vastly shorter period than normal. Kind of similar to extreme on the fly mutations like in Resident Evil allowing extreme cross over changes, though the removal of scales is particularly notable more so than the humanoid form. In evolutionary theory you can trace every race back to the same origin ancestors. Tbh, I do believe the loss of scales/tough hide would typically be an evolutionary trait weakness so I think that change is a bit far fetched, though still not impossible. In that world humans didn't even original exist at the time of Primordials so something else brought them forth, I forget if they said it was due to various gods or what in past games, so that may be why the Ys world also felt it to be a proper path of evolution.

[Daelight]

Originally posted by Xengre:

It seems that the Tree of Origin, as far as I can tell so far, likely results in extreme mutations to evolve in beneficial ways to the race over a vastly shorter period than normal. Kind of similar to extreme on the fly mutations like in Resident Evil allowing extreme cross over changes, though the removal of scales is particularly notable more so than the humanoid form. In evolutionary theory you can trace every race back to the same origin ancestors. Tbh, I do believe the loss of scales/tough hide would typically be an evolutionary trait weakness so I think that change is a bit far fetched, though still not impossible. In that world humans didn't even original exist at the time of Primordials so something else brought them forth, I forget if they said it was due to various gods or what in past games, so that may be why the Ys world also felt it to be a proper path of evolution.

My wild and possibly very wrong and biased theory is that somehow, humans existed back then in another continent or something, and the Great Tree felt that it would be fitting to turn the Saurian race to look like humans but to not be actual humans, as in, their height, strength, speed, abilities and control over the essence, while humans could not have either of those. Regardless if they were prone to have some of them or be special and talented - like Adol Christin for example - and that's how the Eternians came to be. I don't know and I can't give a base about this, so might as well talking out of my ass here. But I learned something today about the Tree that I didn't liked, if what this black dressed person said was true and I may even start to doubt that they came from Saurians as Dana stated, but I will have to progress the game more and see what happens before I say anything else.

I suppose one small reasoning I could use about my poor and bad, biased statement is that their King who was like the first of the "human like" creatures fell in love with a woman from another continent when she approached him one day. It stated it as a woman, not another of their own race, so, this is where I can kinda base my theory about humans existing back then, but it might be general and I can be very wrong. I also don't remember the exact lines, but that's what I took from what I can briefly remember now that I am half asleep.

- On a side note, the game is fantastic.

[essen]

Originally posted by Noel Auditore:

My wild and possibly very wrong and biased theory is that somehow, humans existed back then in another continent or something

No there were no humans at the time. Humans appeared after that era only.

All eras led to humanoid life forms dominating so it's not terribly surprising that the saurian era did as well. It's just the most appropriate form. We can wonder about the lack of species that would link dinosaur-like saurians to human-like ones, for sure, but then again we only see a small island / small part of the world. They most likely originated from elsewhere. The historic records only go as far back as the time when they found the great tree, which was hundreds or thousands of years ago? In comparison the eras lasted million of years.

Originally posted by Xengre:

something else brought them forth, I forget if they said it was due to various gods or what in past games, so that may be why the Ys world also felt it to be a proper path of evolution.

The 3 Gods hypothesis seems to be true for the world of Ys. Ys Seven and Ys VIII (as well as Ys V I believe, but I didn't play that one) go into some detail about them. Anyway the tree and the process of Lacrimosa were definitely put in place by the Goddess Maia and it is this process that ultimately led to humans.

It's not too different from some definitions of God we have, such as "that which creates order out of chaos" of which the evolution mechanism is but a part of. Only we don't have the tree, Lacrimosa, and epic boss battles.