Decline of Obsidian's writing quality

[SMJSMOK]

Ok this is just my opinion but I really feel that the quality of the stories, characters and quests written by this studio went down drastically. I consider New Vegas and the first Pillars to be masterpieces when it comes to writing. Then came Pillars 2 and the drop in writing quality was already noticeable (and don't get me wrong, I did like it, it was still a very good game). But The Outer Worlds is something I just cannot swallow. Uninspired story, bland uninteresting characters, predictable quest lines, cringe humor (seriously what were they thinking? Do they think they're Douglas Adams?) - there are a couple of exceptions but I was generally disappointed.
So...what exactly happened in Obsidian? Is it because they lost Avellone? Or were there more good writers who left them? Or something else maybe?

[Stelar Seven]

Try personal preference or bias.

It could be you don't like the space western, or some other thing. I can say your view, while it reads a like other reviews here, like copy paste similar, doesn't match my experience of the game.

It may also be that in continuing to consume similar media you are recognizing tropes and you didn't used to so now things are predictable because that's how reality is, given knowledge of the input you can usually gauge the output.

[Sentient_Toaster]

We don't know what budgetary or other constraints Private Division (2K) put on them at the time as a publisher. Publishers sometimes make pretty terrible demands on developers, like shoehorning a multiplayer mode into "Spec Ops: The Line", or very present (but thankfully utterly unnecessary) MTX consumables in DX:MD.

Obsidian does seem to be inconsistent. I liked Tyranny much more than this game, in particular.

From what I gather, the company had/has serious management issues.

[Cutlass Jack]

Obsidian has always been all over the place writing wise. The base game of New Vegas honestly wasn't all that great. But the DLCs for that game were so well done that every DLC for any game that came after would be forever compared badly to them. Combined, they're a great product.

But this is also the same company that brought us "Rocks Fall. Everyone dies."

Some of it definately comes down to personal preference. I enjoyed Deadfire much more than PoE. And I say that as someone with their name in the credits of the first game (as a backer). Opinions were all over the place about Tyranny.

Personally, I did enjoy this game. But it wasn't their best work. However my problems with this game was more design issues than writing.

[The Badman]

The most noticeable change in PoE2/TOW vs PoE1/NV/Kotor/AP is the depth in world building and main plot. I will compare TOW to NV and PoE2 to PoE1 because each pair has more thing in common.

TOW has 8 to 9 main quests depend on 2 factions, taking one will exclude you from the other.
https://guides.gamepressure.com/the-outer-worlds/guide.asp?ID=52238
Thing is, following one branch of the main quest still tell you what would happen in other branch because important NPCs will tell you. The writing's way of giving you surprises is the same from the beginning to end: board is bad with some decent people, anti-board is good with some flaw people... It isnt wrong to do it this way, but is certainly boring. The big picture is given to you since the beginning and doesnt turn any different color.

Meanwhile NV has 6 to 11 main quests divided between 4 factions. While you get to know the general faction agenda, the conclusion isnt made clear by following other branches. Especially when it comes to 3 out of 4 of the faction choice. For a game with a lot of established lore the game give you a lot of twists and turns: who is House, how he lives, what is his agenda, what motivate caesar, ncr's various ♥♥♥♥♥♥, why is the BoS so absent, helios one's true purpose... Not all neccesary, but important piece of the big picture regardless. Not to mention NV's overall theme behind it, which is more explicitly revealed in the dlcs.

PoE2 has 8 main quests, PoE has 14. Main quest in PoE both relate to you and deeply tied in with the world building. Everywhere you go you see suffering because of the hollowborn phenomenon. A lot of sidequest is also related to that while dispensing other world building information. PoE2 main quest relate to you but only loosely tied in with the world. Most place you go dont have a problem with the antagonist or his agenda. Hell, you barely get into trouble because of religious zeal despite the antagonist is a giant walking god.
PoE made the main quest personal by granting you an abilities you use throughougt the game. PoE2's same attempt barely matters in interaction or gameplay except for some minutes of scripted interaction in a 60 hours game.
The twist at the end of PoE can shake the world if people believe in it so you understand why keeping it secret is a must. Meanwhile, the twist at the end of PoE 2 barely has anything to do with what happened as most people arent affected by the antagonist's actions. Not to mention considering the antagonist's aim, he has no reason to hide it from you. And considering his power, he has nothing to fear from the whole world. He created more suffering and fear just walking around preparing for his plan anyway. So why hiding information? It isnt even some complex scheme that neccesitate more suffering or go against anybody's interest. Thus, PoE2's imitation of the PoE1 mystery without the writing chop to back it up make its main quest so hollow.
The gods act like powerless immature mortals in PoE2 rather than the cold, distant, mysterious beings in PoE while the antagonist is powerful, polite and mysterious (until you learn how that mystery is uneeded and unearned anyway) and the personal™ issue caused by him doesnt even matter. So you already lost huge motivation to follow the main quest.

For how cliche it is, AP's story, dialog and perk system was designed to give you impression that you miss out much more contents than you actually did. And because the game doesnt have binary skill check, you are more on edge and more involved in each story instance. And the twist of the game do change your priority upside down.

[SMJSMOK]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

From what I gather, the company had/has serious management issues.

That's what I heard as well. I guess that some of the best senior writers (Avellone...) had enough of it, up and left. Those who replaced them probably aren't that good and have less experience (I mean, it's hard to come after someone who made Planescape: Torment). That's my guess anyway.

[SMJSMOK]

Originally posted by The Badman:

The most noticeable change in PoE2/TOW...

Good analysis, thank you.

[SMJSMOK]

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

The base game of New Vegas honestly wasn't all that great. But the DLCs for that game were so well

Hmm I have the opposite opinion. I think that the base game of New Vegas is one of the best written piece this genre has ever seen (they nailed the gray-and-grey moral ambiguity so damn well). The DLC's, on the other hand, were...alright, but nothing special to me (I probably enjoyed the one with the two tribes in the canyon the most of them). To each their own I guess.

[SMJSMOK]

Originally posted by Stelar Seven:

I can say your view, while it reads a like other reviews here, like copy paste similar, doesn't match my experience of the game.

I can assure you, these are my thoughts (no copy paste) and I thought about this a lot after playing the game (probably more than I should have :-D ).

Originally posted by Stelar Seven:

It may also be that in continuing to consume similar media you are recognizing tropes and you didn't used to so now things are predictable because that's how reality is

Hmm I don't think so. I read a lot and play story driven games frequently as well so I passed this stage (of being able to predict most simpler stories) a long time ago. And that's fine. I can still enjoy a predictable story (and I often do) when it has other strengths.

[Stelar Seven]

Then its probably just taste. Did you like Firefly?

[SMJSMOK]

Originally posted by Stelar Seven:

Then its probably just taste. Did you like Firefly?

Didn't play that, so I can't comment sorry :/

[The Badman]

it was a tv series, not a game

[Stelar Seven]

Originally posted by SMJSMOK:

Originally posted by Stelar Seven:

Then its probably just taste. Did you like Firefly?

Didn't play that, so I can't comment sorry :/

It's a TV series by Joss Whedon. Very similar feel to TOW.

[Drifter]

OP this is exactly the question I keep asking. Why on earth are their stories getting steadily more bland and dull?

Ultimately I think there is progressive turnover at the company, and they are hiring writers who come out of a university creative writing background.

So the stories become steadily more bland and moralising, lacking in genuine spark or creativity.
You get all the lame social statement ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ creeping in at the expense of good stories. The sorts of things which get you through uni.

Go back to the 90's and the writers are all part timers who turned up there for some other reason originally. They tend to have a bit more flavour and looseness.

Cain and Boyarsky are past it. Tim has been designing that Godawful ship text minigame, and Leonard spent about 8 years writing the story Diablo 3. With ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Diablo in heels.

What the ♥♥♥♥.

I'm playing Fallout 1\2 again now, they are just so much better. You can tell they're not written by a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ committee and the writers aren't afraid to be expressive.

It's a lame way for it to go, but that's it. It's been eaten by this puritan movement we have now, where people are terrified to give offence, and everything becomes beige and Stalinist, because to have personality gets your throat cut.

So you get stories about lesbians and cakes, and no one can say hang on, THIS IS ♥♥♥♥

[Possum Pope]

... You're praising Fallout, a consummately political game series that comments relentlessly on human nature, authoritarian politics, nuclear weapons policy, and the self-serving relationship between military and industry, for being apolitical? Are you sure that the issue is politics and that you're just really bad at paying attention?

Also, you're talking about how Outer Worlds, a game whose forums have been flooded by people complaining about how it's biased, anti-corporate, Marxist, etc., is apparently afraid to give offense? If it was, it could've just been another safe bit of pabulum, but it's not. It takes a fairly definite stance about the direction the world is taking, about power structures in society, and about the nature of community in fixing those problems.

Could it be that you're the one who wants things to be safe and familiar, and you're just really angry at a studio for taking stances you don't like because... Reasons?

[Jaguario]

The writing in the game feels like it was filtered through a dozen people before making it into the game. Very corporate style, ironically. So no, its not very good. Some parts have charm and personality (I liked Max's writing, personally) but most was heavily processed.