"antiban" is subverting anti-cheat reporting system

[AughtNisNaughtNoughtBēonAught]

First off, cheats preventing a player from getting reported (the means to prevent a well deserved, permanent ban) is nothing new, that chicken is thoroughly cooked. PUBG has had a credibility problem since day one because of their player based reporting system, particularly when it comes to believing anti-cheat efforts by design. Fabricating numbers/referring to "temporary bans" as anything other than an oxymoron, is not enough to sway legitimate players from desiring VAC or a third party such as Punkbuster, without a conflict of interest.

Further undermining good faith is an institutionalized group of internet trolls using the same account (we know who) to enter every single thread in an attempt to sway general discussions (on behalf of a key investor--10%) about pubg's egregious profiteering of cheaters spending money on micro transactions. Due to the popularity of cheating in games with player based reporting systems and "antiban" cheating in particular, reports of obvious cheaters produces an extremely low percentage of any punishment, whatsoever. Of those attempted, in-game reports, less than 1% of them produce actual, permanent bans (corrupt and extremely lenient for accounts actively spending money on micro transactions/DLC), since the vast majority of cheaters are implementing "antiban" cheats to circumvent and stifle efforts to blow a whistle. As a result, the majority of offending reports are never even received by the server.

Paying to cheat is the same problem as pay to play. Payment is made by those who want certain privileges or advantages. It creates unfair game play, which is supposedly in violation of Valve policies...But what makes us think corruption stops with the players and the developer? A lack of business ethics is what has killed the gaming industry. It rewards unethical developers to turn a blind eye as long as they're built for micro transactions. This form of greed has lowered the bar of fair gameplay to rock bottom.

There are A LOT of cheaters presently nonpunishable, using similar "antiban" cheats. The most popular comes in the form of displaying "network lag detected" for a split second (watch for it) approximately 2-4 seconds after submitting a report. It's assumed majority of players won't stick around between the time it takes to exit the match after submitting it. Cheating is a problem that can be rectified if the premise of anti-cheat doesn't rely on a player based reporting system. If it does, interfering with the reporting feature is all that is required to enable a cheating player base that pays money to keep their DLC accounts. Of course if cheaters lose their DLC, the developer would be severing ties with a continual source of revenue. If left uncorrected long enough, bribery becomes the new status quo.

Reporting feature using 'REPLAY' via career tab 'functions' as a placebo feature and will NOT produce an update as intended/expected from the reporting system as in-game reports do when cheaters are not actively using an "antiban" cheat. When particular "antiban" efforts no longer work (typically after forewarned updates), cheaters find an updated build as a means to circumvent the reports that a player based reporting system heavily relies upon TO A FAULT. Judge, jury, and executioner is absolute power, which corrupts absolutely. Take the anti-cheat effort out of the hands of developers and place it in the hands of a trusted, anti-cheat third party that prides itself of cleaning house with no financial conflicts of interest for a better game, period.

[DotlessComma]

Now those accounts you mentioned come and start commenting here. "I don't see cheats as much as I used to, the game is very nice etc." Money is always earned, but the character is lost once. These people have sold their characters in every action for money. I haven't played the game for almost 2 weeks. The only thing I understand in the threads is that cheaters are still fighting against cheaters.

[AughtNisNaughtNoughtBēonAught]

[s]Battlegrounds[/s] Developers of the lowest common denominator, which is to say, a critical mass of decay. Dance Dance Revolution for third parties extenuated by timely DLC. Quid pro quo turn a blind eye (wink, wink) "Hey Dev, I'll do something for you, if you do something for me."

[Neravine]

I always knew some of these cheaters had antiban cheats. The developers are trash.

[Lega]

Publicado originalmente por Neravine:

I always knew some of these cheaters had antiban cheats. The developers are trash.

There is no anti-ban cheat, they just left the server once and reconnected after but that's it.

It doesn't even work well because it makes them look suspicion and people still can report them through the replay. Either way, they will getting caught sooner or later otherwise PUBG couldn't ban up to 300.000 accounts in a month.

The one case, because this is another point it isn't a common thing, I've seen, showed cheaters who cheated very obviously and this makes the whole point of trying to avoid a ban absolutely pointless.

If they care about hiding or at least, not cheating as evident as they did, they wouldn't need to do this half-senseless thing and would get a away with it a lot longer.

[FORNAKS]

Publicado originalmente por Lega:

Publicado originalmente por Neravine:

I always knew some of these cheaters had antiban cheats. The developers are trash.

There is no anti-ban cheat, they just left the server once and reconnected after but that's it.

It doesn't even work well because it makes them look suspicion and people still can report them through the replay. Either way, they will getting caught sooner or later otherwise PUBG couldn't ban up to 300.000 accounts in a month.

The one case, because this is another point it isn't a common thing, I've seen, showed cheaters who cheated very obviously and this makes the whole point of trying to avoid a ban absolutely pointless.

If they care about hiding or at least, not cheating as evident as they did, they wouldn't need to do this half-senseless thing and would get a away with it a lot longer.

It is statistically impossible to ban 300k accounts per month in a game whose daily player count already varies between 300-400k. Cheaters never disappear because cheaters are the part that makes money in the game. new accounts are always eligible to play with you. I haven't played with bots like you. I have more than 3000 random matches. Cheaters are a part of this game now they hold most things.

[FORNAKS]

Publicado originalmente por AughtOughtNahtNaught:

First off, cheats preventing a player from getting reported (the means to prevent a well deserved, permanent ban) is nothing new, that chicken is thoroughly cooked. PUBG has had a credibility problem since day one because of their player based reporting system, particularly when it comes to believing anti-cheat efforts by design. Fabricating numbers/referring to "temporary bans" as anything other than an oxymoron, is not enough to sway legitimate players from desiring VAC or a third party such as Punkbuster, without a conflict of interest.

Further undermining good faith is an institutionalized group of internet trolls using the same account (we know who) to enter every single thread in an attempt to sway general discussions (on behalf of a key investor--10%) about pubg's egregious profiteering of cheaters spending money on micro transactions. Due to the popularity of cheating in games with player based reporting systems and "antiban" cheating in particular, reports of obvious cheaters produces an extremely low percentage of any punishment, whatsoever. Of those attempted, in-game reports, less than 1% of them produce actual, permanent bans (corrupt and extremely lenient for accounts actively spending money on micro transactions/DLC), since the vast majority of cheaters are implementing "antiban" cheats to circumvent and stifle efforts to blow a whistle. As a result, the majority of offending reports are never even received by the server.

Paying to cheat is the same problem as pay to play. Payment is made by those who want certain privileges or advantages. It creates unfair game play, which is supposedly in violation of Valve policies...But what makes us think corruption stops with the players and the developer? A lack of business ethics is what has killed the gaming industry. It rewards unethical developers to turn a blind eye as long as they're built for micro transactions. This form of greed has lowered the bar of fair gameplay to rock bottom.

There are A LOT of cheaters presently nonpunishable, using similar "antiban" cheats. The most popular comes in the form of displaying "network lag detected" for a split second (watch for it) approximately 2-4 seconds after submitting a report. It's assumed majority of players won't stick around between the time it takes to exit the match after submitting it. Cheating is a problem that can be rectified if the premise of anti-cheat doesn't rely on a player based reporting system. If it does, interfering with the reporting feature is all that is required to enable a cheating player base that pays money to keep their DLC accounts. Of course if cheaters lose their DLC, the developer would be severing ties with a continual source of revenue. If left uncorrected long enough, bribery becomes the new status quo.

Reporting feature using 'REPLAY' via career tab 'functions' as a placebo feature and will NOT produce an update as intended/expected from the reporting system as in-game reports do when cheaters are not actively using an "antiban" cheat. When particular "antiban" efforts no longer work (typically after forewarned updates), cheaters find an updated build as a means to circumvent the reports that a player based reporting system heavily relies upon TO A FAULT. Judge, jury, and executioner is absolute power, which corrupts absolutely. Take the anti-cheat effort out of the hands of developers and place it in the hands of a trusted, anti-cheat third party that prides itself of cleaning house with no financial conflicts of interest for a better game, period.

The course of the game is based on cheaters, they don't want to lose their money source anymore. Of course , bots that do not play the game like Lega and state that they know everything continue to exist . After more than 3000 random matches, he can easily see what kind of cheaters are. Even those around me have been using cheats for a long time, but they have never been Banned. I'm not going to complain about them, it's not my job. I was spending time reporting on Pubg Shield and I was in the top 10, but what we saw there was that the player who ate the ban was coming back to the game. and recently, when cheat usage videos of Master 1 accounts of accounts that are constantly depositing money in Ranked matches began to appear, pubg shield suddenly disappeared. I don't need other people's opinions. this was done to keep the reputation of the game from getting worse. If you have money, you can do whatever you want in this game. Currently, the game closes itself while on the reporting screen, and when we attack to kill the team, it kicks them out of the game. This does not happen for everyone, but when we look at the players, we do not miss the fact that there are master 1 accounts.

[Lega]

Publicado originalmente por FORNAKS:

It is statistically impossible to ban 300k accounts per month in a game whose daily player count already varies between 300-400k. Cheaters never disappear because cheaters are the part that makes money in the game. new accounts are always eligible to play with you. I haven't played with bots like you. I have more than 3000 random matches. Cheaters are a part of this game now they hold most things.

It isn't impossible but you don't think further there.

PUBG has more than 400.000 players and you don't think about different time zones and accounts who circle. I play every second day and others just at weekend etc.

Stolen accounts are a thing and also, mass created blank accounts too.

[FORNAKS]

Publicado originalmente por Lega:

Publicado originalmente por FORNAKS:

It is statistically impossible to ban 300k accounts per month in a game whose daily player count already varies between 300-400k. Cheaters never disappear because cheaters are the part that makes money in the game. new accounts are always eligible to play with you. I haven't played with bots like you. I have more than 3000 random matches. Cheaters are a part of this game now they hold most things.

It isn't impossible but you don't think further there.

PUBG has more than 400.000 players and you don't think about different time zones and accounts who circle. I play every second day and others just at weekend etc.

Stolen accounts are a thing and also, mass created blank accounts too.

Do not tell me that you are playing games by throwing regular matches, 2-
You score 3 matches. If you look at time zones. In some time zones the game doesn't even start. what are you talking about, we are playing games with the same guys for 5 games.

[FORNAKS]

Publicado originalmente por Lega:

Publicado originalmente por FORNAKS:

It is statistically impossible to ban 300k accounts per month in a game whose daily player count already varies between 300-400k. Cheaters never disappear because cheaters are the part that makes money in the game. new accounts are always eligible to play with you. I haven't played with bots like you. I have more than 3000 random matches. Cheaters are a part of this game now they hold most things.

It isn't impossible but you don't think further there.

PUBG has more than 400.000 players and you don't think about different time zones and accounts who circle. I play every second day and others just at weekend etc.

Stolen accounts are a thing and also, mass created blank accounts too.

of course, it should not be ignored that some partners enter the game with bot accounts to increase their stats. Dec.

[AughtNisNaughtNoughtBēonAught]

The state of 'game play fairness' PUBG has formed itself into, is inexcusable greed. Fair game play isn't optional by policy on Steam's platform, it's a requirement and a demand to use it's services. And it's way past the due date for Valve to enforce it's own policy on all games, especially the corrupted ones.

Publicado originalmente por Lega:

There is no anti-ban cheat, they just left the server once and reconnected after but that's it.

Nonconstructive lie. Easily fact checked, often presented as a feature among several other cheats. Circular logic.
They work and are the linchpin to why there are so many cheaters in a player based "anti-cheat" reporting system which amounts to a placebo button. The real problem is the developer doesn't want an anti-cheat to ban all of it's cash cow accounts. Guilty as charged.

Antiban cheats are literally the backbone of permissible cheating and pay to play. Cheat reports never received by server for cheaters using a current antiban cheat will never be disciplined, obvious or discrete. This has been the case now for far too long. The sheer majority of cheaters have sought antiban, preventing their long overdue permanent ban for reasons that may not be as obvious as a glaring public relations spoof account (we know who).

[Lega]

Publicado originalmente por AughtOughtNahtNaught:

Nonconstructive lie. Easily fact checked, often presented as a feature among several other cheats. Circular logic.
They work and are the linchpin to why there are so many cheaters in a player based "anti-cheat" reporting system which amounts to a placebo button. The real problem is the developer doesn't want an anti-cheat to ban all of it's cash cow accounts. Guilty as charged.

Antiban cheats are literally the backbone of permissible cheating and pay to play. Cheat reports never received by server for cheaters using a current antiban cheat will never be disciplined, obvious or discrete. This has been the case now for far too long. The sheer majority of cheaters have sought antiban, preventing their long overdue permanent ban for reasons that may not be as obvious as a glaring public relations spoof account (we know who).

There is no fact, just what you think does happen based on the point that many people you report don't get banned without taking into account that they might be legit. Not all of them but many. The older the account, the bigger the chance the owner didn't cheat.

The system based on reports is just one system of a few and another is based on the fact anti-cheat developers do buy the cheats, get the code and let the game/anti-cheat scan for it.

After a specific period of time, all of the cheaters who used this specific cheat and code getting banned at once and they can't avoid this ban.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/the-art-of-fair-play-developing-the-best-systems-to-deal-with-players-who-cheat

Part 3: Methodology for solving the problem

Monitoring (AI/algorithmic/manual)

Cheat monitoring can be divided into two groups: public and private cheats.

Public cheats are sold openly (or almost openly) online on many platforms. You have to regularly monitor all these platforms, buy cheats (pretending to be a cheater), review them, and update the anti-cheat software.

With private cheats, it's much more complicated -- they are distributed in closed groups and generally you don't even know about their existence. In this case you have to start looking for cheaters in the game."

I don't need to google this anti-ban thing because my last research wasn't so long ago and you wrote, "for a long time". The only one known thing we do know, isn't as effective you thought. They may be able to avoid it a bit longer but they will get caught too. In all my years, I've seen 2 case just 2, even in TPP and the cheating problem was a lot bigger for me than today in FPP.

There are smart cheaters who got away with it for a long time but those never would leave the server and stuff because as I said, it is too obvious and it's the opposite of smart.

[Shady Knights]

Publicado originalmente por AughtOughtNahtNaught:

Take the anti-cheat effort out of the hands of developers and place it in the hands of a trusted, anti-cheat third party that prides itself of cleaning house with no financial conflicts of interest for a better game, period.

This is where I've landed in thinking that this needs to be the future state.


Currently, the status quo is to hire your own anticheat team to fight cheating. The costs of doing so only go up year on year. If you don't keep funding them, the cheating will quickly get worse. Companies losing revenue (like PUBG) obviously have some tough choices to make when budgets are getting cut.

Your anticheat team is not allowed to share information with others. You horde your information so that your competition must invest huge amounts of money to protect their own game. However, in doing this, each company acts as an island and is much weaker for it with regards to defending against cheating.

You can pay a third party police force to help you, but they are typically weak typically only blocking entry to your game rather than doing any actual anticheat work.

New companies only real option is to engage the weaker 3rd parties, which means that cheats get a free hit on your company until you are able to fund your own anticheat teams (think PUBG when it first launched).

Also, your own anticheat team is overworked and only goes after the most common cheats. Less common cheats are rarely, if ever, investigated because it's just not efficient to do so. Each decision for the private police force has to have a cost/benefit analysis done.



Is this really sustainable? Is the greed of holding all your anticheat really still a benefit or is it the weakness that allows cheating to flourish across the industry?

Does it even work? Retrospectively looking back 10 years to where we are today....can you say this is sustainable and that it actually works?

The third party options exist but they are weak. Why is this? Is it due to the limited way they are implemented or just the selfish way that the game developers guard their secrets with dealing with cheating?

The customer is the loser in all of this. Vote with your wallets, the dry up in the revenue is the only message that's really understood.

[momomatt]

Publicado originalmente por Shady Knights:

Publicado originalmente por AughtOughtNahtNaught:

Take the anti-cheat effort out of the hands of developers and place it in the hands of a trusted, anti-cheat third party that prides itself of cleaning house with no financial conflicts of interest for a better game, period.

This is where I've landed in thinking that this needs to be the future state.


Currently, the status quo is to hire your own anticheat team to fight cheating. The costs of doing so only go up year on year. If you don't keep funding them, the cheating will quickly get worse. Companies losing revenue (like PUBG) obviously have some tough choices to make when budgets are getting cut.

Your anticheat team is not allowed to share information with others. You horde your information so that your competition must invest huge amounts of money to protect their own game. However, in doing this, each company acts as an island and is much weaker for it with regards to defending against cheating.

You can pay a third party police force to help you, but they are typically weak typically only blocking entry to your game rather than doing any actual anticheat work.

New companies only real option is to engage the weaker 3rd parties, which means that cheats get a free hit on your company until you are able to fund your own anticheat teams (think PUBG when it first launched).

Also, your own anticheat team is overworked and only goes after the most common cheats. Less common cheats are rarely, if ever, investigated because it's just not efficient to do so. Each decision for the private police force has to have a cost/benefit analysis done.



Is this really sustainable? Is the greed of holding all your anticheat really still a benefit or is it the weakness that allows cheating to flourish across the industry?

Does it even work? Retrospectively looking back 10 years to where we are today....can you say this is sustainable and that it actually works?

The third party options exist but they are weak. Why is this? Is it due to the limited way they are implemented or just the selfish way that the game developers guard their secrets with dealing with cheating?

The customer is the loser in all of this. Vote with your wallets, the dry up in the revenue is the only message that's really understood.

you are overthinking and ppl is already sick of battle royale
time to get back to cs franchise where vote kick eliminates problem

[mtjeeves]

Publicado originalmente por momomatt:

you are overthinking and ppl is already sick of battle royale
time to get back to cs franchise where vote kick eliminates problem

Now I know you're here trolling if you're gonna tell us the CS franchise has cheating under control. Some of the most watched game videos are streamers catching cheaters in cs franchise. Right now warzone stuff is picking up in numbers too.
Your opinion is nice and all, but the reality right in front of people would suggest otherwise.
The best part is that the information is available to all.

[AughtNisNaughtNoughtBēonAught]

Corruption caused by absolute power is inevitable. A corrupt developer needing to seize the duty to be their own 'steward of fair game play' will absolutely be negligent in their own micro transaction game. PUBG was founded on "pay to play" and by design, falsely portrays a player based reporting system with quid pro quo exploits (antiban cheats) as legitimate for the purpose of deception.

This developer has self-proclaimed (putting it nicely) in every remark on the topic to have made every effort to stop widespread cheating, (including the PR spoof account trolling every thread on this topic with half-baked red herrings and broken English).

It's been done methodically and intentionally for curb appeal, with the intention to not permanently remove cheating accounts provided they have a history of purchasing more DLC--the micro transaction cash cows.

Predictably, this developer has intentionally handled cheaters with kid gloves and two day suspensions. Phrasing "temporarily banned until..." merely for a couple days due to "unusual activity" to not exclude any cheater from the rest of them with choice words to encourage more discretion next time. The incestuous relationship between a greedy developer and tolerated cheating is outside the bounds of acceptable behavior on Steam.