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There has to be a punishment that actually stings if you want it to be effective.
I use a razor naga. I'm sure if I looked I could find all sorts of macros to use on it.
I started using it for WoW because of the 10 key on it. Now I can't imagine playing pugb if I had to press 1-5 on a keyboard lol.
I don't use macros on it, other than for raiding in WoW.
I mean razor has a PUBG profile that I'm assuming you can download macros for.
I've always made my own for WoW, because it was easier to just make a macro that did exactly what I wanted instead of having some other authors features.
There needs to be some detection for repetitive non human functions. Somehow there needs to be ways to detect when a mouse has a full motion pull on recoil, and when it makes 130 micro movements that are alike.
I don't understand enough about the programming end to know what that would require though.
There needs to be more advanced detection. Just something simple. If a process is repeated the same way with no variance in method or time, more than 3 times.
It's obviously written and not performed by a person.
I just don't know how we get that functionality.
That's the crux of this issue for me.
I can't just say "this is an easy fix", because I don't know what that fix entails.
I know what the desired effect is. I just am limited in my ability to determine what gets us there.
Thanks for your feedback.
The idea proposed above would allow keybinds to your mouse. So you'd still press your 1-5 mouse buttons instead of the keyboard, no problem with that. One click, one action is the philosophy. You just wouldn't be able to run a script executed by one of the buttons, or a macro, or multiple keys on one press. Razor Naga allows all these things and right now. Having FPS specific mouse software, that forces all players to have an even playing field is the core concept behind this. Using keybinds on your mouse buttons isn't the issue.
You raised an important point about Cronus. While this is predominately hijacking the controller input, it can also be used for mouse and keyboard. If this concept was to be viable, then something like Cronus could intercept the inputs via the hardware dongle it uses and then inject it's own signals/scripts like it does today.
I think that with this concept that something like the Cronus would be more detectable simply due to the fact that it would be sending inputs from a mouse and keyboard that aren't possible with the use of a limited mouse program specifically designed for FPS games and with an inbuilt detection ability.
Due to the mouse software being consistent, creating that level playing field, integrated games would be made aware of impossible inputs/combinations and know the device has been hijacked. Things like full auto macro's etc should be made much easier to detect. Scripts controlling recoil might be a bit harder but with a baseline mouse program running all the time on any user playing the game, the outliers should be made more visible.
How specifically this could be implemented would be up to the game developer. You can see though, as you have the trusted source (the anticheat mouse software), then you can share data with your integrated partners and validate if there's anything suss.
This is a conceptual idea only. What exactly do you have an issue with? Do you agree with the problem statement?
Do you disagree with the concept it would be easier to detect no recoil scripts if a game forced everyone to use the same standard mouse software while playing, and it had inbuilt anti-cheat capability? EAC could extend and do something like this and it would just simply be incorporated into what it already does. It would insure the integrity of the mouse input.
Please then, with your 15+ years experience, how would you propose that you block/ban no recoil scripts effectively?
Would you allow others to see or change/replace the code of your software?
This point makes the idea pointless because this isn't something most companies would do.
A better solution would be, and I did send this suggestion to the devs already, to scan the files for Luna scripts or similar and block the game if the system does find it until the script gets removed.
In addition to this, they need to train AI to scan the data of the recoil and find anomalies.
The last one is the most important part and I know they already work on it.
If not PUBG itself, third party AI anti-cheat systems do.
Anti-tamper/detecting software and drivers, is part of the fight against every kind of illegal software including script-apps for no-recoil, already.
Thanks Lega for actually raising some valid points.
It doesn't replace/change/remove other companies software. The way it is activated would need to be carefully done. I think end user agreement to switch on/off would be all that's needed. End users presumably can do this now with their own software. A "remember my settings" type function would help streamline the game to run each time and allow it to auto-disable. It is then the end user that has decided this. Of course, the end user would not be able to play the game unless they allowed the anticheat mouse software to take control.
When the game ends, the regular mouse software is re-enabled.They can use their regular mouse software just fine whenever they play any game that isn't integrated.
In the best case scenario, the mouse companies would integrate to the anticheat mouse, and it would run within their own software. They could then advertise as such. Razor for instance, could have the integration and it would disable the macro/scrip capability in Razor for that game when it's active. As more and more games add this as a requirement, they'll be forced to actually address it in their baseline mouse software.
This would be disruptive, and I can understand that status quo would be upset with it and resist.
Currently though, mouse companies are part of the problem with no recoil. They allow all this capability, but take no responsibility on how it's used. This leaves each FPS game coming up with their own unique (and costly) solutions to combat this issue. It damages the genre, it damages eSports, it costs them companies like Krafton money. The mouse companies wash their hands of the problem rather than actually be part of the solution.
The better solution you described is where we are today right? All devs from every game need to do all these things to keep on top of no recoil. I'm sorry, but it's not working. Too many aren't doing a good enough job on it, and for the rest it's just a cat and mouse game.
A standard that FPS games can rally around would be a better solution for the industry.
This solution includes every kind of macro.
App-script-based tools.
Macros that get written onto the device directly and cheat software-based no-recoil cheats.
Hardware based no-recoil tools like Cronus for console are part of it too.
AI is the solution because it can scan a lot of necessary data to find proof.
I'm not against suggestions and if you think you have a good one, send it to the devs because this is everything we can do anyway.
Good luck!
Thanks....but do you think that a game by game approach is right with this? This is the status quo now for most anticheat. Should no recoil be a game by game solution or should it be treated at the macro level?
PUBG investing in such things surely costs them a heap of money that will need constant investment. Even if they crack the problem, how does this help anybody other than PUBG?
The issue is an FPS industry issue. I see your type of solution only really being a viable one if a company like Anybrain does it, and remains agnostic to particular games. That means that a startup can simply partner with them, and plug in, and get access to all the IP and knowledge Anybrain has gained. It's not secreted away and protected by game Devs.
As mentioned on another post, the idea/concept I'm floating would be good if done via something like EAC which already is well established. It means that company that uses EAC could extend and incorporate the anticheat mouse capability into their existing solution. Data from such a capability could also supply AI and machine learning to improve even more accuracy. Client to server input comparisons would be possible, and mismatched data checked server side would result in very accurate bans.
That is the point, you don't make macros impossible because no game can detect macros that got written onto the device and also, unknown cheat-codes and script-based-apps.
The last two remain as the same fight they already have. Finding them, get the code, ban them or closing the vulnerabilities and cross detecting them by placing traps etc and this also includes your point of anti-tamper.
On the opposite, detecting abnormal data includes everything and this will reduce the use of such cheats significantly exactly like it happened to several other cheats like no-clip etc.
For now, I would go the way and block luna scripts, or similar, but pushing the AI further as quickly as possible to minimize the abuse of such cheats significantly across all platforms.
Logitech etc, won't help cheaters if games start to block their scripts but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't like if games start to block the whole software. Imo, they can do everything they want because my Logitech software isn't even installed. ^^
I couldn't find anything about a corporation of PUBG and Anybrain but I know PUBG would use it because it is easier to let them do this job as to train the AI on their own.
It's a 6 year old game, I doubt they'll use it unless it's proven out easy to integrate with. I am guessing Anybrain will launch with a new game. They are under NDA, the game they are under NDA with is almost certainly not PUBG.
Sorry Lega, my poorly worded question was confusing due to the word macro. In this respect, I meant at the top level, not on a game by game basis. Don't treat it for just PUBG, treat it for any game.
It doesn't matter how old the game is because they need to develop and test it anyway and Krafton won't close the game unlike it is finally dead and this is still far away, at least, in 2-3 regions.
I got it correctly, don't worry but as I said, you don't block all macros, mainly just those that need the software of Logitech etc to work, if I didn't misunderstand it.
Everything else, anti-tamper, closing the vulnerabilities and block cheats whenever they can, has to be the main priority regardless what cheat we talk about.