Do most skills matter

[T-Dax]

I'm just getting started, and it seems like only a few skills get used. Am I missing something, or are most skills worthless?

[Kosiciel]

I would say only combat (mostly concentration, intimidation with rage and prerequisites for feats), crafting (until you have what you need) and mining (not that useful later, after acquiring endgame equipment) skills have uses, and obviously lockpicking and trap disarming for dungeon raids.

[Jim]

Some of the other skills are useful for unlocking prestige classes, but I don't think that's what you meant. If I understood correctly, the devs feel that most of the other skills should be used specifically for story related stuff as they build the campaign, but I might have that wrong.

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by Jim:

Some of the other skills are useful for unlocking prestige classes, but I don't think that's what you meant. If I understood correctly, the devs feel that most of the other skills should be used specifically for story related stuff as they build the campaign, but I might have that wrong.

Having non-combat skills only basically be useful for only a single story campaign is kind of a waste of coding, but that's the devs prerogative. Still, if dwarf fortress is any indication, building out some sort of procgen mystery system to generate quests and then clues for people to find to solve which bandit group robbed the caravan or burgled the mayor's house is definitely a process...

[Miss Incarnadine]

It seems really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that most skills are useless but required for prestige classes. What's the point of introducing (for example) the assassin class if I have to take 16 ranks in skills that don't do anything?

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by Miss Incarnadine:

It seems really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ that most skills are useless but required for prestige classes. What's the point of introducing (for example) the assassin class if I have to take 16 ranks in skills that don't do anything?

Because the dev is working on implementing those skills. Also he is just following the requirements from the books. But honestly right now since most skills aren't used you should have a plethora of skills points to distribute anyway.

[Miss Incarnadine]

There is zero incentive to play a prestige class if the requirements for it are pointless or wasteful. "Oh look here's the future site of a hotel" Can you stay at the hotel now? No, because IT DOESN'T EXIST YET!

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by Miss Incarnadine:

There is zero incentive to play a prestige class if the requirements for it are pointless or wasteful. "Oh look here's the future site of a hotel" Can you stay at the hotel now? No, because IT DOESN'T EXIST YET!

Well some of the prestige classes are well worth it. Although Assassin has always been a weak prestige class. And like I already stated you should have plenty of skill points available to "waste".

[Wraith_Magus]

The basic answer is that the dev is adding all the skills in the OGL as a sort of placeholder even if he doesn't intend to ever use those skills. In general, this whole game is just trying to recreate as much of 3e as possible as faithfully as possible at this point without necessarily caring about the balance. The vast majority of skills have big warning signs saying "this skill is never used", and you should heed them.

In terms of skills that are actually used, you use a ton of spot, disable device, lockpicking, and magic item creation skills. There are "aid another" slots, so you want as many characters to max those skills out as you have aid another slots. (I.E. you want two people with max disable, and three people with max magic item creation.) There are also other skills that are useful based on class, like concentration for casters. You can also make a specific lumberjack/miner character (or just respec one of your characters when you need to go chop lumber and then respec them back later if you don't mind spending a few hundred gp on retraining).

Originally posted by Miss Incarnadine:

There is zero incentive to play a prestige class if the requirements for it are pointless or wasteful. "Oh look here's the future site of a hotel" Can you stay at the hotel now? No, because IT DOESN'T EXIST YET!

Prestige classes are designed to be powerful, and their prereqs are the cost for that. Loremaster also has a useless feat requirement, for example, but gives you up to five secrets, one of which is an extra feat, three of which are equivalent to the feats that improve saving throws, +1 dodge to AC, +1 attack rolls, or maybe spell slots.

Of course, Loremaster faces the problem that most of what it does besides give those secrets is specialize in knowledge checks that aren't very useful right now. That said, as the game stands now, you don't actually have much else to spend skill ranks on, anyway.

Since this game is reasonably generous about respeccing, I'd say to use what exists now, and just respec later if a patch makes something useful then.

[Rose]

So Tumble says it doesn't have a functional use yet.
Does that mean it doesn't even do the "5 Ranks in Tumble gives +1 to Fighting Defensively and +2 to Total Defence"?

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by Miss Incarnadine:

There is zero incentive to play a prestige class if the requirements for it are pointless or wasteful. "Oh look here's the future site of a hotel" Can you stay at the hotel now? No, because IT DOESN'T EXIST YET!

Prestige classes are only "useful" in the arena, but currently pointless in the actual game. I guess the dev decided to completely build out the class system while still designing the underlying game mechanics. But considering the limited budget, this decision is rational from a dev standpoint, frustrating to consumers, and unlikely to change since Steam EA is to some degree basically the patreon model (pay me to work at my speed, not your speed).

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by I blame Earthshaker:

Originally posted by Miss Incarnadine:

There is zero incentive to play a prestige class if the requirements for it are pointless or wasteful. "Oh look here's the future site of a hotel" Can you stay at the hotel now? No, because IT DOESN'T EXIST YET!

Prestige classes are only "useful" in the arena, but currently pointless in the actual game. I guess the dev decided to completely build out the class system while still designing the underlying game mechanics. But considering the limited budget, this decision is rational from a dev standpoint, frustrating to consumers, and unlikely to change since Steam EA is to some degree basically the patreon model (pay me to work at my speed, not your speed).

If you were paying attention you would see the dev is starting to completely redo the adventure mode.

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

If you were paying attention you would see the dev is starting to completely redo the adventure mode.

Which is tantamount to admitting they should have done it right the first time but instead didn't, oops, my bad. Not saying it rises to the level of fraudulent (let alone criminal), more of a critique of a lack of best practices. Measure twice, cut once, only a poor craftsman blames their tools, etc. Probably also why I made sure to buy this product on sale...

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by I blame Earthshaker:

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

If you were paying attention you would see the dev is starting to completely redo the adventure mode.

Which is tantamount to admitting they should have done it right the first time but instead didn't, oops, my bad. Not saying it rises to the level of fraudulent (let alone criminal), more of a critique of a lack of best practices. Measure twice, cut once, only a poor craftsman blames their tools, etc. Probably also why I made sure to buy this product on sale...

You seem like a real fun person, imagine you have a ton of friends...

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

You seem like a real fun person, imagine you have a ton of friends...

At least I'm mature enough to not have the need to resort to ad hominem attacks when I'm wrong. I would also prefer to have a few good friends over a bunch of sh itty acquaintances...

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by I blame Earthshaker:

Originally posted by Wizard of Woz:

You seem like a real fun person, imagine you have a ton of friends...

At least I'm mature enough to not have the need to resort to ad hominem attacks when I'm wrong. I would also prefer to have a few good friends over a bunch of sh itty acquaintances...

The thing is I am not wrong. But I am sure your are too "mature" to admit that.