tactical problem

[failsafe]

Hi guys - question to players more experienced than me... that makes probably most of people here ;-P

I'm in first campaign, turn number 10. I've taken Cadia sector and now striking at Nemesis Tessera. The thing is, however, that I have relatively small pool limit for battle - only 750 capacity. The idea of the mission is to secure transfer of allied ships by the battlefield, which is not really difficult, but in the same time forces me to play very much open-cards way. I can't focus enough firepower on each area, since I need to screen allied ships. I manage to secure them - not a problem - but I suffer high losses and then the real mission starts: I need to get rid of other ships of Aeldari.

I started to think that my forces are too thin for this mission. I have two cruisers and two LC's with two frigates and I add one more LC from third fleet to fill the pool. In fight against Chaos this would be more than enough, but this mission is kind of against of what you expect to have playing Empire - I mean... can't even ram, since aeldari are just too damn fast for that.

So, finally, my question:
- do I suck that much in this game?
- or did I jumped too fast to the battle?

I believe that if I've spent more time in Cadia sector (without breaking into Nemesis sector) maybe I could accumulate more renown and resources and build up larger force with larger battle capacity. I've seen a youtube clip with guy throwing much bigger forces into this battle. I don't have much reserves at the moment, I'm spending resources as I earn them so I don't believe I could increase strenght of strike group within few turns. Besides, I have more LC's that I can put into battle but LC's seem to be little too fragile for aeldari firepower.

So, I'm confused. Those 10 turns were very easy, I haven't lost a single ship so I started thinking that things are working the good way ;-P

[Lack of Stuff]

Are you using escorts to get early IDs on the space elves? Also if their holofields are up don't bother with lances, focus on macros and if possible torpedoes. Bring a stasis bomb and target engines/generators. Fight near gas clouds to force them to come in close and board at every opportunity.

[jmsand1]

Space elves are fast but fragile (glass cannons). Remember to prioritize their generators and engines as the bulk of your forces focus their fire on them one at a time. They seem to always retreat towards the top right corner of the map, so if you lose track of them, thats where they headed.

As Lack of Stuff says above, use your escorts to scout ahead. Your heavy weapons are great at long range sniping especially in the lock-on stance.

[failsafe]

I think I've lost my frigate very early. I admit, I couldn't keep track on them. Besides, this was first battle where I had to fight stronger enemy without option to eat him piece by piece. I was suprised when I lost one of my cruisers after relatively short fight.

Stasis bombs are nice, but they also slow down torpedoes or bombers, so they dont bring much profit other than allowing my ships to get closer. Or am I wrong? I don't have many stasis bombs available but I have also noticed, then when I used once aeldar cruiser just made a rough turn and escaped the area.

[Lack of Stuff]

The stasis bomb is either an area denial tool so put it where you don't want your enemy to go or it needs to be used on your opponent after baiting out their maneuver skills (for space elves it's the quick turn.)

As for getting closer, that is exactly what the Imperial Navy wants to do vs a kiting enemy. Good luck trying to beat a decent Aeldari fleet with torpedoes or fighter craft, theirs are better. Your macrocannons are your best weapon at least until you start pumping out Nova cannons and the closer you are the better.

[failsafe]

Okay, but do u think I can beat them with smaller fleet not being composed to count aeldari? I mean that at this point I wouldn't know how to compose fleet to get most of it. Other thing is my expectations to win with no loses: is it sensible or I'm aiming too high?

[Lack of Stuff]

Without knowing exactly what your fleet is and how you specced it out I can't really say for sure, but generally speaking the AI is not very good at Space Elfing so pulling out wins without losing ships of the line is possible. You might lose escorts here and there but that's why they exist.

On the topic of escorts the IN has arguably the best in the game in the Widowmaker. It single-handedly cuts down on a large portion of BS you get from Aeldar and the Nids while providing good value against all the other factions so long as you protect it properly. If you aren't using Widowmakers then start now.

[failsafe]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2814203644

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2814203619

I do have one widowmaker ;-P

AI - based on what I have seen with chaos, yeah, ai is not a smart guy.

In normal battle I would put my fleet somewhere in the stealth position, maybe in gas cloud and put stealthed frigates in forward position to see more. But in this case I have to race quickly to intercept threats comming from different areas of the battlefield.

[Lack of Stuff]

Yeah there's some good and bad there. Spire's starting Lunar is an awful ship and that firestorm is good but not vs your current enemy. Good is you've got a Dominator and the Defiants can provide a little fighter cover against getting bombed or torpedoed but their lances won't help much.

I'd say try to catch them in a stasis bubble then get within minimum range for an accurate Nova cannon shot. Go for their flagships if you can but take any decent target. The Lunar is really only gonna be good for ramming, Admiral abilities, and boarding. I think that battles doable but tricky. The escort mission kinda complicates things but at least they'll provide another target and some point defense. You're gonna have to lean hard on that Dominator.

Filling out the rest of both of your fleet caps would've also helped. You don't yet have the leadership to bring all that in at once but retreating a ship and bringing in fresh reinforcements can be clutch.

[failsafe]

You think it would be better to have at this point (turn 10-11) more LC's or rather have one more standard cruiser instead of two LC's? It is a theoretical discussion, since I can't reshape my fleet within turn or two, and sticking there and doing major changes within 10 turn doesn't make sense.

[Lack of Stuff]

Cruisers, get more cruisers. Keep some LCs for missions that require more speed or for capturing things but for fighting you should be looking to your heavier stuff.

[failsafe]

Okay. I will try to pass this mission with what I have, but maybe I need to start campaign from the scratch and build fleet other way. Maybe part of the problem that within those 10 turns Ive created 4 fleets - this means that I could keep a pressure on chaos and take systems one by one very quickly, but it also means that maybe I've spread experience from battles too much.

[jmsand1]

The great thing about games is that we can all use different tactics to get to the same goal. I agree with LoS on some points but disagree with him on others. (I am no expert and have just recently come back to the game. And my fav faction is Necrons followed by Chaos).

I generally pick an Escort I like and use it exclusively, For the IN it's the Firestorm, It's powerful weapon means I can just target a ship with it and let it snipe on it while I micromanage my line ships.

Regarding the battle-start you shared screenshots of, you seem to have equal forces and no static defenses to maneuver around. So thats good. You should promote your second fleets Cruiser (Dominator) to that admirals flagship, and fleshout the two fleets with another ship or two if possible.

At the start of a battle I always put 'silent running' on any ship that can use that stance. Your heavier ships should start in 'lock-on' stance.

Your escorts should range ahead some but not too far. (make sure you run the battle at slow speed as soon as you encounter the enemy). It's always fun to trigger the enemys scan so that they only mark a couple of ships (this isn't possible all that often, but it's cool when it happens). However, as you know, the Eldar can dish out the damage very fast, so you do want your bigger ships to start attacking them as soon as they are discovered. Once you've Id'd enemy line ships be sure to prioritize the system you want to disable first (I usually start with generators first, then engines). Fighters and torps don't work well against Eldar until their ships are all but dead anyway, but can do a good job of 'kicking them when they're down'. Ramming them is near impossible, but throwing boarding assaults at them can be effective.

[failsafe]

Okay, this is an interesting highlight about tactics.

Games, yeah, they are pretty much about reapproaching each issue from different angles - and as long game really allows this, then it is more than fine. Don't really love games that have only one solution to each problem.

I need to rethink my tactis. I believe part of the problem is that all the battles so far were easy - well, not exactly a walk in the park - I did have some issues, in several cases I had to jump my almost killed ships from the battle to save them ect, but I could at least project my firepower in a sensible way. And first battle with aeldari is like "whooom" and half of my fleet is dead ;-P. I kind of like it, what I don't like is that I haven't progressed that much in tactical sense. For a new player this game is pretty difficult - many ships, many types of weapons, little difficult to find best use of all possible variations of equipment if you had time to build only several LC's. This is why I've asked the question - besides, I always like to learn from more experienced players. So, thanks. I will retry my battle with current force and if it doesn't work, then I will try to look for older saves and try to have second take on campaign.

[jmsand1]

Sounds good dude! And as long as you're enjoying yourself more then you are frustrating yourself then it's money well spent.

I guess one of the reasons I like Chaos and Necrons so much is that you arn't given soooo many ship choices. The Chaos fleet is very similar to the Imperiums Imperial Navy so once you're familiar with that fleets tactics you can hit the ground running when you play as Chaos. As for Necrons... they come in one flavor: spicy green death. :) With them you are lucky to have a choice of two ships in a class to choose from. As for the Tyranids... you drown in choices of ships, so it's near impossible to pick favs.

But the Imperium has good solid choices. I generally prefer the IN ships over Mechanicus and SM fleet ships. But you have to field fleets from each faction to keep your campaign going.

[jmsand1]

Oh. Ships with fighters. You should always have a ship with fighters in your fleet. Even if you can't use them (fighters) to attack the enemy, they are great protection for your primary ship. Keep an eye on your enemies turret count to see if it's ok to use them offensively, The AI loves doing long range scouting and attacking with them. Not the best tactic.