Tau? Which Fleet?

[Nemoh]

So, Merchant or Protector fleet? What is worth going for in each?

[Kinzie Kensington]

Hm... Tau Protector is heavy front faced with 83 front armor as long as shield is up, they got alot of torps and fighters too cons is that the ships are pretty large and if the enemy gets behind you you cant fire back so you need good positioning and they are really vurnable in brawl and ram.

Merchants are more broadsided got alot of fighters and torps too but are more versital overall, skill wise they get the same skills and perks.

I would say merchants is more beginner friendly as protector is highly specialized in long range and postion.

If you want to go water cast diplomat kroot sphere built i would go merchants as the escorts are better for that built

[PlasmaWaagh]

I found Protector to be more difficult to get the swing of. The 2 paths drastically seem to alter which fleet composition you'd want, and the battleship would be great if it were about a hundred to 150 points less. I started having fun with Mont'ka/Target Coordinator ability, but it was irritating at first (always keeping mark up on everything in range while flicking an escort out of run silent/into lock-on and keeping him close and not dead...), and just going Kauyon and LC is easier. Still, there is so much run silent focus in just about every faction it feels like playing an imitation of other, high accuracy factions better at running away when they do get spotted, and the Protector LCs leave much to be desired imho (except the 112 point version). Their escorts and Cruiser+ ships also require a little more finesse in spacing they are wider than they are long and will ram one another if you're not careful and boost or turn into touching wingtips.

I'm having fun with 4-5 of the Cruisers (the 197 point version if memory serves) and about 8 Castilian escorts. Ordinance heavy with the missiles and fighters/bombers, but the mass Rail Guns of Protector just don't really seem to pack a reliable punch on their own even with lock on, Mont'Ka, and the Targeting ability *or* reload inside of 9k... It gives the feeling that you're totally reliant on scoring crits instead of doing damage. Sometimes it works like a charm, sometimes you have to work for it, and sometimes, if the crits don't come, you can feel fairly outgunned at every range. Disruption Bomb is great for them, as is Stasis for when Nids decide to do their new sprint across a third of the map. From what I've read grav hooking in a ton of escorts and swarming the map is supposedly good, but paying through the nose for discounted Wardens on otherwise "meh" ships and then having even more micro-management so you can either set up a screen line or just mob past your opponent and back cap does not seem fun.

Merchant Fleet seems to play more or less the same, but with ships that don't want to bump and grind one another while trying to move in close quarters. They get more Ion Cannons, and the guarantee-hit lance fire is welcome when the enemy is bearing down on you. Their battleships are viable and fun to play, and you can even roll with a few if you want. You also don't choose the Kauyon/Mont'ka so you don't feel like you have to run all one way or the other. Their carrier capacity seems to be much better, and, hilariously, they are just as well armored and armed as the Protector Fleet. There isn't even a real speed difference. I'd have to look but I do think Merchant might be a tad slower... you probably won't notice as the Tau feel, to me, like running nids without speed boost or all Ork Deadnaughts... they both feel slow, but it is the Protector Fleet that always had me lamenting my slowness and the Merchant Fleet feels more natural at a snail pace. Just like Protectors, you can grav hook in escorts, but the Orca Destroyer is the same thing as the Protector Fleet's Warden and not likely what you want, though in this case you may wind up with some if you bring battleships. The battleships are the only real thing that make the workable fleet compositions any different, as the Merchant Fleet has 2 viable options and you can bring enough to just run them and the escorts they carry with them. Again, I find myself heavily favoring the escorts that bring seeker missiles and often running 5 Cruisers then filling out with missile escorts to 1200 with Merchant Fleet... almost a carbon copy of Protector except with, imho, marginally better guns and endurance, but a lower crit rate (Mont'Ka) on ship macro fire. Kauyon's exceptional Rail Gun accuracy is somewhat mitigated by not always having to remain in stealth and the Merchant Fleet's Ion Cannons being in much greater number and positioned in broadside configurations, and lances don't miss unless you're shooting at holofields.

Demiurge/Kroot/Nissicar are the same for both. Get to 10 and the Emissary makes them maintain morale until your flagship goes down, otherwise they turn tail before you'd hope fairly regularly considering you're using them as meat shields, usually. Kroot is an able, crit-proof bullet sponge to hide behind, and affordable, and the Demiurge ships have good lance fire, torpedoes, and of course the cutting beam to go along with being more durable than basic Tau ships. As it is, I prefer the straight up Tau ships bolstered with the enhanced escort/LC detection range and either the flagship weapon range upgrade or the strobe that gives shots a 50% miss chance if you're going full ahead or in a high energy turn (which does seem to work in the AdMech Grav cannon, stasis bomb, etc)... With that, I've found the probe and either stasis or disruption bombs to be the go-tos... You need all the vision you can get, and, though you have fighters to scout with either the Merchant or Protector fleets, if you're going to put them on CD and risk throwing them away into turrets you want it to be to open the way for missiles and/or bombers if at all possible. Depending on the enemy, either blanking their shields (and for nids, turrets) or locking them in place so you can run them down (eldar of all flavors- also stasis can stop torpedoes from blowing you away) or run away (ork) seem to be the options you'll want to have. Neither Tau is the best at taking or giving boarding, morale will crack badly if you leave something hanging out and DE/Nids/Orks/SM can pile in on it, and the Breacher Team upgrade is kind of silly for a possible 3 uses considering you only have boarding actions... from your flagship... to deliver them. You can mass board a single vessel with either faction and put 10 stacks on it post-patch and do alright, but generally you want the scrum to be over, if not the game, before those stacks resolve as the brawl should be delayed until you're out of ordinance with either Tau option.

There are little things you do differently between the two Protector options and the Merchant Fleet, and Kauyon usually means all escorts/LCs, but other than that their ships are essentially mirrored. It feels almost like they broke a Chaos-size faction down into 2. For example, the 4 main Cruisers across both Protector and Merchant look about as similar as the weapon variances from IN, and are very, very close in cost.

The 4-5 Cruisers and missile escorts has been fun for me, for both Protector and Merchant. I just often find myself envying Cobra Widowmakers and Emperor Battleships, as getting a 13.5 base detection missile boat for Tau on grav hooks would be a welcomed change from Wardens and Orcas, and having a functional battleship with squadrons, weapons, and, again, that base 13.5 detection... Both feel like something Tau should be able to eek out with less than 9 escorts on hooks to micro. Merchant's battleships do alright, though. Protector's is just too expensive even with the AoE defensive buff... Nearly half of your points in a 1200 game means it is too expensive to lose, too big to miss, and likely won't earn its value back in a match against a human being who has played this game unless you're pretty darn good with the Tau Protector fleet.

[Korbo]

Tau Protector are long ranged firing line. Merchants are brawlers.

There is at least one viable variation of every ship (in fact, the vast majority are viable). The exception to this is the Merchant Hero (their cruiser), which is like a Protector Protector but with its guns on the side instead. Needless to say, for something with 83 frontal armor, this is not a good thing. Its back guns that are supposed to be front orientated are also bugged and currently face sideways instead.

If you ever want to build a Merchant Fleet using Heroes/Cruisers, go play Protector Protectors instead. Their battleship, light cruiser and auxallaries are all very good though - the Merchant Merchant light cruiser is cheap, tough, and with good DPS for the cost of slow speed, making it a great brawler if you can get in close with stealth (most people think tau are long ranged and will close with you though). The Explorer (battleship) is also very good (both variants), but has a maximum range of 9000 and has half or more of its DPS only frontal, so you really want to get in close and personal and avoid broadsiding. Use the fact that it is a battleship that has quick turn (e) liberally to always keep them in your frontal firing arc.

All Protector ships are viable.

For escorts, your favourite should just be whatever comes with torpedoes, honestly.

tl;dr skip the merchant cruiser all else is good

[Kurnous]

Originally posted by Korbo:

If you ever want to build a Merchant Fleet using Heroes/Cruisers, go play Protector Protectors instead.

What is wrong with the Hero? it is essentially an Imperial Cruiser (lunar) with seeking torps instead of normal (bonus!) and Launch bays added in and more flexible firing arcs. Disadvantages would be cost, no lightning strike and lower morale.

[Katitoff]

Originally posted by Nemoh:

So, Merchant or Protector fleet? What is worth going for in each?

Merchants: Tanki bois
Protector: pew pew bois

[Kinzie Kensington]

Originally posted by PlasmaWaagh:

I found Protector to be more difficult to get the swing of. The 2 paths drastically seem to alter which fleet composition you'd want, and the battleship would be great if it were about a hundred to 150 points less. I started having fun with Mont'ka/Target Coordinator ability, but it was irritating at first (always keeping mark up on everything in range while flicking an escort out of run silent/into lock-on and keeping him close and not dead...), and just going Kauyon and LC is easier. Still, there is so much run silent focus in just about every faction it feels like playing an imitation of other, high accuracy factions better at running away when they do get spotted, and the Protector LCs leave much to be desired imho (except the 112 point version). Their escorts and Cruiser+ ships also require a little more finesse in spacing they are wider than they are long and will ram one another if you're not careful and boost or turn into touching wingtips.

I'm having fun with 4-5 of the Cruisers (the 197 point version if memory serves) and about 8 Castilian escorts. Ordinance heavy with the missiles and fighters/bombers, but the mass Rail Guns of Protector just don't really seem to pack a reliable punch on their own even with lock on, Mont'Ka, and the Targeting ability *or* reload inside of 9k... It gives the feeling that you're totally reliant on scoring crits instead of doing damage. Sometimes it works like a charm, sometimes you have to work for it, and sometimes, if the crits don't come, you can feel fairly outgunned at every range. Disruption Bomb is great for them, as is Stasis for when Nids decide to do their new sprint across a third of the map. From what I've read grav hooking in a ton of escorts and swarming the map is supposedly good, but paying through the nose for discounted Wardens on otherwise "meh" ships and then having even more micro-management so you can either set up a screen line or just mob past your opponent and back cap does not seem fun.

Merchant Fleet seems to play more or less the same, but with ships that don't want to bump and grind one another while trying to move in close quarters. They get more Ion Cannons, and the guarantee-hit lance fire is welcome when the enemy is bearing down on you. Their battleships are viable and fun to play, and you can even roll with a few if you want. You also don't choose the Kauyon/Mont'ka so you don't feel like you have to run all one way or the other. Their carrier capacity seems to be much better, and, hilariously, they are just as well armored and armed as the Protector Fleet. There isn't even a real speed difference. I'd have to look but I do think Merchant might be a tad slower... you probably won't notice as the Tau feel, to me, like running nids without speed boost or all Ork Deadnaughts... they both feel slow, but it is the Protector Fleet that always had me lamenting my slowness and the Merchant Fleet feels more natural at a snail pace. Just like Protectors, you can grav hook in escorts, but the Orca Destroyer is the same thing as the Protector Fleet's Warden and not likely what you want, though in this case you may wind up with some if you bring battleships. The battleships are the only real thing that make the workable fleet compositions any different, as the Merchant Fleet has 2 viable options and you can bring enough to just run them and the escorts they carry with them. Again, I find myself heavily favoring the escorts that bring seeker missiles and often running 5 Cruisers then filling out with missile escorts to 1200 with Merchant Fleet... almost a carbon copy of Protector except with, imho, marginally better guns and endurance, but a lower crit rate (Mont'Ka) on ship macro fire. Kauyon's exceptional Rail Gun accuracy is somewhat mitigated by not always having to remain in stealth and the Merchant Fleet's Ion Cannons being in much greater number and positioned in broadside configurations, and lances don't miss unless you're shooting at holofields.

Demiurge/Kroot/Nissicar are the same for both. Get to 10 and the Emissary makes them maintain morale until your flagship goes down, otherwise they turn tail before you'd hope fairly regularly considering you're using them as meat shields, usually. Kroot is an able, crit-proof bullet sponge to hide behind, and affordable, and the Demiurge ships have good lance fire, torpedoes, and of course the cutting beam to go along with being more durable than basic Tau ships. As it is, I prefer the straight up Tau ships bolstered with the enhanced escort/LC detection range and either the flagship weapon range upgrade or the strobe that gives shots a 50% miss chance if you're going full ahead or in a high energy turn (which does seem to work in the AdMech Grav cannon, stasis bomb, etc)... With that, I've found the probe and either stasis or disruption bombs to be the go-tos... You need all the vision you can get, and, though you have fighters to scout with either the Merchant or Protector fleets, if you're going to put them on CD and risk throwing them away into turrets you want it to be to open the way for missiles and/or bombers if at all possible. Depending on the enemy, either blanking their shields (and for nids, turrets) or locking them in place so you can run them down (eldar of all flavors- also stasis can stop torpedoes from blowing you away) or run away (ork) seem to be the options you'll want to have. Neither Tau is the best at taking or giving boarding, morale will crack badly if you leave something hanging out and DE/Nids/Orks/SM can pile in on it, and the Breacher Team upgrade is kind of silly for a possible 3 uses considering you only have boarding actions... from your flagship... to deliver them. You can mass board a single vessel with either faction and put 10 stacks on it post-patch and do alright, but generally you want the scrum to be over, if not the game, before those stacks resolve as the brawl should be delayed until you're out of ordinance with either Tau option.

There are little things you do differently between the two Protector options and the Merchant Fleet, and Kauyon usually means all escorts/LCs, but other than that their ships are essentially mirrored. It feels almost like they broke a Chaos-size faction down into 2. For example, the 4 main Cruisers across both Protector and Merchant look about as similar as the weapon variances from IN, and are very, very close in cost.

The 4-5 Cruisers and missile escorts has been fun for me, for both Protector and Merchant. I just often find myself envying Cobra Widowmakers and Emperor Battleships, as getting a 13.5 base detection missile boat for Tau on grav hooks would be a welcomed change from Wardens and Orcas, and having a functional battleship with squadrons, weapons, and, again, that base 13.5 detection... Both feel like something Tau should be able to eek out with less than 9 escorts on hooks to micro. Merchant's battleships do alright, though. Protector's is just too expensive even with the AoE defensive buff... Nearly half of your points in a 1200 game means it is too expensive to lose, too big to miss, and likely won't earn its value back in a match against a human being who has played this game unless you're pretty darn good with the Tau Protector fleet.

ty for that <3

Originally posted by Katitoff:

Originally posted by Nemoh:

So, Merchant or Protector fleet? What is worth going for in each?

Merchants: Tanki bois
Protector: pew pew bois

short version :)